[nevereconomy]

Never had this in all my years of travel, so not sure what to expect.

BA cancelled my flight in F – tried to put me in economy on AA, but I said no and am travelling AA J a day later than planned. Had change fee on internal connection and extra rental car day. Will they reimburse this – also can I expect them to honor he miles/tier points I would have had in F ? Should I try for anything additional for the total inconvenience of it all ?

[MartynSinclair]

How many days out was the flight cancelled and why couldn’t they re route you on your preferred day of travel..?

[LuganoPirate]

I’m sure others are better qualified than me to answer, but I believe there is a set fee they have to pay in compensation for the downgrade. I have a horrible feeling if you decided to go a day later after they offered an alternative, the extra expenses are down to you. As I said, I’m not sure on this point but think I read it somewhere. I do know however some airlines are happy to make a goodwill payment, but not sure that BA know what goodwill payments are!!

[FDOS_UK]

BA cancelled my flight in F – tried to put me in economy on AA

What????????????????????????????? F to Y downgrade – are they insane?

[FDOS_UK]

LP, no it doesn’t work that way.

Under EC261 if a flight is cancelled, Article 1 (Cancellation) states

In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8

Article 8 states

Right to reimbursement or re-routing

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) – reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger’s original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

– a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity;

So nevereconomy is legally entitled to be given an ‘F’ flight.

This has not happened, so IMHO (and assuming the flight is 3,500km or longer), BA must pay

– 600€ for cancellation
– any care costs
– As the replacement flight was in J, not F, it is a downgrade and thus 75% of the fare for that segment (less taxes)

There is no pressure on the OP to accept a flight under inferior transport conditions.

Please remember that I am not a lawyer and this is just a layman’s opinion.

[nevereconomy]

Thanks everyone – LP I did wonder the same, that since I did not take their “generous” offer of Y travel on the same day that they might call it a voluntary change and balk at compensation, but I am going to try. Where in BA is the best place to submit all this too ?
Just as an aside, if this is how they treated the F passengers on the cancelled flight, heaven help everyone else! Have to say that the J class AA flight was an absolute delight – great seat, good food, very personable interactive crew (no snootiness.)

[SGJNI1961]

A downgrade from F to Y?????? Is it only BA that can treat customers with such contempt? Let’s hope the new ipad equipped staff at T5 can help in the future? (Joke!) Meanwhile, I have for some many months been avoiding BA metal across the pond, preferring AA in every case. It’s usually night and day to compare them and when I can start with pre clear in DUB it’s a no brainer. Do the 4 flight necessary for GLD and leave. That said, I am going to SFO in F for Easter because it was a cheap upgrade, and my expectations are very low. As for the far east, one is spoilt for choice if you can wait for/find a sale fare on CX, QR or AY.
Tried KLM a few weeks ago and it was good but worried about AF so might not book on a regular basis. It’s really just the annual trek to CPT that ties me to BA anymore because it is such good value in J when booked far in advance. The new DUB/DWF (then OGG) route certainly has my attention on AA.
The Club Europe food seems to have improved lately and there have been some very lovely crew on recent flights but longhaul 8 across seating is unacceptable. Round trip ARN/SIN on QR last week, OMG how well we were looked after and the food and service……………wonderful. Actually got off either end not wanting to eat. Let’s see how that works arriving in SFO in F? Bet I’ll want diner in Johnny Foley’s as usual.If only I liked Guinness!

[nevereconomy]

Thank you all for the input – BA handled it perfectly – nice call from Customer Service going through my claim and telling me that I would get all I asked for, where the credits would take place and how long it would take. Also adjusting miles and tier points for the downgrade. Don’t often get to say this about BA, but no-one could have handled it better. (They can do it when they try.)

1 user thanked author for this post.

GivingupBA

[nevereconomy]

Pardon me while I choke on the words of my last post. I am beginning to think the ‘BA are total losers’ folks may have it right. No prob with the cancellation refund, but for my downgrade on a £3900 ticket they proposing refund of £397…
Needless to say strongly worded e=mails/letter have been sent. The EC 261 clause covering this could not be any clearer.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Well that sounds to low even by the standard that they calculate these things.

BA will take the highest Economy fare (before tax) which is £1901 (if it was JFK). the fare if £3900 before tax would have been around £3300. Then they have to refund the difference 75% on the sector – which I equate to be around £700. So a refund of £525 under EU261 rules. If onto a domestic destination then the full Economy may have even been higher so I can see how they came up with a refund of £397. I think it is wholly inadequate to base a refund on this basis but that is how BA will justify such a shockingly low refund.

I have in the past had 2 people downgraded for the same flight from W to Y. As we submitted the refunds at different times (they both paid exactly the same fare) we got 2 different refund amounts as manually processed. Did make me chuckle so no consistency for these things.

[FDOS_UK]

Tim, that’s not how I understand the calculation to work.

I believe it should be

Pro rata fare paid minus official taxes and charges x 75%. BA’s carrier surcharge is not an official tax or charge.

Let’s assume the £3900 was for a return ticket, meaning the one way cost was £1950 and say the one way tax/charge component was £500 (for sake of argument, this may be wildly incorrect), it would be £1950 – £500 = £1450 x 75% = £1087.50.

The cost of the economy ticket does not come into play under EC261, it is based on the ticket purchased.

Edited to add: the effect of the calculation means the financial payment for the downgrade is the same for F to J/W/Y.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Hi FDOS

I think you are right and agree with you and your illustration for figures. However I think BA use the working I have shown (or something similar) as that would roughly equate to the figures given by nevereconomy.

Problem is BA don’t explain (or haven’t to us when we have queried this in the past) how they come up with the figures. Very much “this is it”.

Hopefully nevereconomy will have more luck and get suitable recompense for the downgrade. Would love to hear what they say and actually show the calculation.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=903945]However I think BA use the working I have shown (or something similar) as that would roughly equate to the figures given by nevereconomy.[/quote]

Tim, I agree. it’s because they treat it was a fare refund rather than a EC261 reimbursement.

The OP needs to express very clearly that this is an EC261 claim – it is a slam dunk, as there are no extra ordinary circumstances for a downgrade.

[capetonianm]

There is a perfectly easy way to calculate the fare difference and it is available to any user of a GDS.

You simply recalculate the fare, backdated to the original date of travel, as if the passenger had booked in that class when he purchased his ticket. However, it does give rise to the question of which subclass he would have been booked in depending on the availability on that date. The fairest way is to take the average of all the fares in that cabin and use that to calculate the difference.

EU261 has come up with a different way, which may or may not be fair.

[MartynSinclair]

Out of interest, to those in the know, if you are faced with a downgrade at the gate, does the passenger have the right to refuse to accept the downgrade and insist on taking the next flight in the class of travel purchased – even if it means an extra night at the passengers expense OR does the airline have the right to cancel your ticket if you don’t accept the downgrade??

I wonder what happens if the passenger does have that right and he has checked baggage in the hold.

Short haul would not concern me – but facing a HKG-London, it certainly would…

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