[Bucksnet]

CC, you say you don’t see a sudden change in levels, but the reviews I’ve read have been getting worse with a lot more scores of 0-3 than before, with of course the odd 7-10.

It is telling that their average score is now 3.9 whereas before I think it was well over 6.

Of course these are only peoples opinions and they may be some who try to rig the results up or down, but I’m sure Skytrax try to block those people from doing so.

[CallMeIshmael]

From an award perspective Skytrax state –

Voted by over 18.8 million airline passengers from 100 different nationalities, the World Airline Awards™ are the most prestigious and respected quality recognition of front-line product and service standards across the world airline industry. With 200 airlines featured, the awards reflect customer satisfaction levels across 38 different items of airline front-line product and service.

then..

The Trusted & Respected Airline Awards

Known as the Passengers Choice awards and based on the Skytrax global, independent passenger survey of airline standards. Unlike some “pay-to-win” award companies (many probably know who they are!), these independent awards are :

not subscriber based / airlines do not pay to be included

not limited to a selected number of airlines

not limited to a selected geographical region

not profit-driven (yes, for once ethics wins out over profit!)

not part of a “self-interest” award program

not based on a pay-to-attend Awards ceremony

not driven by any associated or resultant advertising

not sponsored or influenced by any third party

http://www.worldairlineawards.com

Am not aware how the voting occurs let alone how the results are formulated and the influence on star ratings, however having 18million votes/observations is undoubtably statistically significant.

Yes, this is the award and not the rating as is the primary discussion point of this thread.

CC, is there a better or more representative ratings body/award in the industry?

[continentalclub]

My apologies, Bucksnet. I didn’t really mean Skytrax passenger reviews – I rather meant those posted on other sites like Flyertalk and here at Business Traveller; ones which don’t have a manual post-approval system and where it’s easier to get a feel for the posters’ posting history and generic position with regard to what they find ‘good’ and ‘bad’.

There have been cases reported, here I believe, where submissions to Skytrax have not been published, when the review is reported to have been somewhat at odds with the relevant carrier’s contemporaneous star ranking.

Of course, any credible website would have a system for trying to weed out overly-positive or negative reviews in case of attempted sabotage by carriers or competitors, but again, since Skytrax won’t enter into any kind of discussion on the subject, they can’t really expect unquestioning acceptance of their results.

As they themselves say on their site “We respectfully suggest to any site users that do not agree with our Editorial Policy, that you have the choice to discontinue visiting our web site.”

Which, broadly, is a suggestion that I’m more than happy to accept.

I should perhaps also declare an interest in customer-satisfaction rating systems. I have, for my sins, had rather a lot of experience in their design, delivery and attempted corruption. Managing a robust one is a good deal harder than it may look!

[continentalclub]

From a technical point-of-view, I’m afraid that there’s absolutely nothing ‘statistically-significant’ about ’18 million votes/observations’.

Unless we can verify the submissions, unless the submissions are made within a time frame which bears relevance to the judgements, unless we understand the voting and measuring methodology then neither we, nor indeed they, can make any statistically-significant observations.

However, by their own admission, it’s not these submissions which inform the ratings:

“It is the Quality Analysis system that ranks airline product and service standards, based upon professional evaluation conducted by our in-house airline audit specialists. Before an official Star Rating level is determined and awarded, SKYTRAX audit office carries out a detailed Quality analysis across more than 800 different areas of product and service delivery.”

Whilst we may agree with some of their rankings, this does not in anyway confer a level of statistical or even ethical credibility on the system employed – just as any disagreement doesn’t prove that there’s any partisan activity afoot.

However, in statistics, absolutes are imperative and, in the absence of them, there can be no conclusion.

And, from a professional point of view, neither I nor any of my peers could get away with a position like Skytrax’s in delivering actionable data and results to our employers/clients.

[LuganoPirate]

I’ve never flown VS but thanks to the ads I’ve been tempted to try them, even though it’s a bit inconvenient for me, and no through booking possible from Lugano or Milan. However sterlings weakness has now made the fare more competitive, but several of my friends who have flown VS say don’t bother, BA is much better, though they are streets ahead of SAA?

I do use the lounge in JNB though as Swiss have an agreement with VS for their F passengers and it is fantastic.

[Bullfrog]

@continentalclub

I must be missing the point .. how do you become Gold with Flying Club & have never set foot on a VS aircraft ?

I have been flying Virgin for about 15 years, and the quality of service has certainly diminished over the last 5 years.

[continentalclub]

Virgin marketing has always been very keen, Bullfrog, and they do give status to those who, presumably, form part of a particular target audience. It would seem that I must fall into that category, but for more than a few reasons, the product is neither attractive nor convenient to me.

With reference to declining standards, there probably aren’t many carriers who haven’t suffered in recent years but, as an external observer, I haven’t heard colleagues who are Virgin customers suddenly reporting cliff-edge falls of the type which would cause a robust satisfaction measure to record a drop of the Skytrax type.

Broadly speaking, they’ve noted poor food, limited beverage stocks, noise from the bar, restricted seat recline in UC and the need to get out of the seat to go flat, difficulty in talking to fellow passengers in UC, rather familiar service and indifferent response to on board complaints (such as passengers gathering in front of extra legroom seats) for years and years.

Of course, at the same time, reports continue to commend the IFE, the space and appointment of the Premium Economy cabin, the length and comfort of the Upper Class bed, its privacy, the T3 check-in and security channel, the T3 Clubhouse and also Flying Club – including now the reciprocal agreements and interline possibilities with Virgin in America and Australia.

[VintageKrug]

@ Bullfrog

You can credit bmi flights to Virgin; an easy way to maintain status.

For those of us with Centurion, Virgin Gold is comped.

[RichHI1]

If you are Virgin Gold and never fly Virgin, are there sufficient other benefits to make it worth bothering with, like access to Presidents Club on Continental for instance. In Mexico and Brazil I used the Centurion lounges on my Am Ex card without bothering with airline lounges,

[MartynSinclair]

VIntageKrug, having just down graded my Centurion to Platinum, wondered what Centurion benefits you consider worthwhile for £1800 per year?

I was never able to benefit from the “free” hotel nights, the VS Gold, I have/had anyway, the hidden charges were higher than most other cards and the travel service was more expensive and less responsive than the high street.

Has anything been dramtatically improved over the last 5 months or so??

[TheMidasGold]

I’m delighted they’ve lost a star in the new Skytrax ratings. It really proves that the process has integrity.

They really have slipped from being a great airline to truly dreadful. Their cabin crew and food are amongst the worst in the industry, I had better service and food on Ukraine International Airlines.

Bye bye Virgin!

[openfly]

Im surprised that they even got to a 3-star rating!!

I have flown Upper Class 6 times in the last two years and each time I hope for an improvement. Each time has been an Airbus A-340. Each time my flight seems to have been a cross between a hen-party in Essex and a stag party in Surrey…dreadfully noisey with the cabin crew joining in! It is possible to hear a lot of the chat and it appears that the crew bring their staff member friends to the Upper Class bar area to party….total disregard to paying-passenger comfort. The bar area is unusable as the cabin crew use the bar as an extension of the galley.

The fish-bone beds are ridiculous if you are travelling with a companion as you end up having to turn your head through 135 degrees to talk.

My relationship with Virgin is now over. They are probably delighted as I am not the type of fare-paying Upper Class passenger that they want!

[bqtraveller]

I flew VS MÍA LHR some weeks ago in Upper, after several years of not using them and the experience was good if not great, but I think the guys at skytrax maybe are being unfair, specially when you see the list of underachievers with 4 stars.

Upper is far better than many of the 4 stars airlines list business products, if it is true that when i first used them the experience was outstanding at that time (by 2006 if i m not wrong) but from that time until now many of VS peers have raised the bar and VS have not, and you can notice that in the somewht dated screens and IFE, which again were first rate when they installed them 7 or 6 years ago, but not anymore.

In my case, I could also make note of the main courses which weren t up to the level of starters and snacks, but were adequate if nothing special.

One thing that could be true, is that the crews are not consistent, in my return i had to suffer an obnoxious steward but in my initial leg all the girls were lovely; but all in all this product is still better than say AF, Iberia, BMI, not to mention the mediocre products elsewhere in the US based airlines, and you ll find some of them with 4 stars.

I forgot to mention LHR upper wing and clubhouse, both of them on par with the best of the bests airlines. So I will say that when it comes to Upper, the product is still a 4 star product, and it wins hands down when matched against many of skytrax 4 star list business products. I would fly with them again, provided there is no Etihad, QR, Swiss, Singapore or similar flying the same route

[Bucksnet]

AA, CO, DL, UA and US are all 3 star, so what US based airlines are 4 star?

[RichHI1]

As it is run from the UK I would presume none. The whole thing is shown up for the hollow sham it is when LAN and El AL which are great airlines are 3 star and Air France whose safety rating must be in doubt and whose first class in flight service and punctualityleave a lot ot be desired are a 4* airline. Heavy bias towards Europe and Asia is very obvious.
I have to say that although I disagree with some posters, I find this site with the forums far more useful than the Skytrax dictats as there are no specifics and I suspect a lot of politics.

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