Has the Cancelled Thread Explanation itself been cancelled??

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)

  • CathayLoyalist2
    Participant

    Tom you started a thread to explain why you deleted a thread about airline acronyms, which attracted replies,including one from me. I was interested to see what the views from other “readers” were but that thread has now disappeared – why?


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    I was asked to delete certain posts on the thread that used words that another poster thought repugnant.

    That would have meant deleting other posts which responded to it, so I deleted the thread.

    I just hope people can keep posting about travel-related subjects, but judging by the emails I receive almost daily about the forum, even here we are as polarised as society at large, and there is very little tolerance for disagreement.

    If someone says something that another finds offensive, I am told I must delete it immediately or I, and by immediate extension, Business Traveller, is supporting that position.

    To take the case of airline acronyms, because some of them were off colour / in bad taste, I was accused on Twitter of supporting views which lead to sexual violence against both men and women.

    No win situation, I’m afraid, but we’re not alone. I noticed over at Head for Points (which is planning a Forum, so I’m told), a simple article about Avios being available to NHS employees has had 200 comments, arguing about whether the NHS employees deserve such a promotion, whether is it a ‘national religion’ or a Holy Cow, whether it has failed the nation during these Covid times and so on and so on as you can read for yourself…
    https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/12/10/avios-for-nhs-employees/comment-page-1/#comments

    Sad times.

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    CathayLoyalist2
    Participant

    Tom , so are you supporting the cancellation of free speech? It seems to me you are. When anyone is subject to being stupidly cancelled then you fight back otherwise you inadvertently hand editing rights to all and sundry in fact anyone. Sadly I think you will lose members or posters instead of standing up to the cretins, whoops that has offended someone, when I am sure the vast majoriy of people on this Forum would support you unreservedly. Come on Forum members have your say!!

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    transtraxman
    Participant

    To me this sounds like another example of conceding defeat to the thought police.
    Did we not learn anything by reading George Orwell´s 1984?
    Or is that book no longer on the school curriculum?

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    GivingupBA
    Participant

    To me this sounds like another example of conceding defeat to the thought police.
    Did we not learn anything by reading George Orwell´s 1984?
    Or is that book no longer on the school curriculum?

    I support your right to say that, but to me those comments are a bit over the top. Thought police and Orwell’s 1984 are about a dictatorship, a society where speaking your mind against the government leads to loss of liberty and job, and ultimately to a death sentence.

    In the case of this thread I support Tom’s actions, he is keymaster after all. And no doubt sees a broader picture.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    One person’s free speech is another’s hate speech.

    I am going out for supper tonight and we will be free to debate everything from Boris Johnson to Brexit to mandating vaccines to immigration to cancel culture and lockdowns, and we’ll all part as friends, but this online forum is not such a place.

    Any single statement can be taken out of context and is done so regularly.

    We go through this periodically.

    As an example, we had this two years ago when someone posted a story about their encounter with airport security. They mentioned the nationality of the person. There was then a debate about the rights and wrongs of whether nationality had any bearing on the story or its outcome. There were views both ways, and I thought it was interesting, but overnight we had a Twitter storm, subscribers cancelling their subscription, a call for a boycott of the magazine and personal emails to me accusing me and the other journalists of being racists.

    We are a magazine and a news website, not a forum with a news site attached.

    Facebook and Twitter are places where you can say what you want, and if you enjoy those places, then you are a better man than me.

    I am here to write the news, write features, edit a magazine and we provided this forum as a place people could swop tips on travel and tell a few travellers’ tales of their own.

    You can read more (and the differing opinions) here – and please do read it, because after the Forum Policy bit, which is the first post, there was a lively debate in which many said I was wrong – and maybe they are right !

    Forum policy

    If we moderate as some want, we are censoring. And if we don’t, we are sexist racist homophobic bullies.

    9 users thanked author for this post.

    Montysaurus
    Participant

    What a sorry state we are in these days. No doubt someone will deem my aforegoing comment offensive.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    Eastbourneguy
    Participant

    What a sad state of affairs, you cant say anything these days without upsetting someone…😡

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    CathayLoyalist2
    Participant

    I rather liked this piece from Rowan Atkinson on Free Speech. It would grace any dinner/supper party. Someone of course will not like it but that is the point

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    esselle
    Participant

    One person’s free speech is another’s hate speech.

    I am going out for supper tonight and we will be free to debate everything from Boris Johnson to Brexit to mandating vaccines to immigration to cancel culture and lockdowns, and we’ll all part as friends, but this online forum is not such a place.

    Any single statement can be taken out of context and is done so regularly.

    We go through this periodically.

    As an example, we had this two years ago when someone posted a story about their encounter with airport security. They mentioned the nationality of the person. There was then a debate about the rights and wrongs of whether nationality had any bearing on the story or its outcome. There were views both ways, and I thought it was interesting, but overnight we had a Twitter storm, subscribers cancelling their subscription, a call for a boycott of the magazine and personal emails to me accusing me and the other journalists of being racists.

    We are a magazine and a news website, not a forum with a news site attached.

    Facebook and Twitter are places where you can say what you want, and if you enjoy those places, then you are a better man than me.

    I am here to write the news, write features, edit a magazine and we provided this forum as a place people could swop tips on travel and tell a few travellers’ tales of their own.

    You can read more (and the differing opinions) here – and please do read it, because after the Forum Policy bit, which is the first post, there was a lively debate in which many said I was wrong – and maybe they are right !

    Forum policy

    If we moderate as some want, we are censoring. And if we don’t, we are sexist racist homophobic bullies.

    Dear Tom

    It’s such a shame to see you, and your excellent work, thrown into such a confused and confusing dilemma.

    For what it’s worth, I sense that the majority of readers and posters here know and understand what is a fair, sensible and considered observation. My salad was soggy/the crew member was brilliant/rude/offhand, their response to my complaint was inept/uncaring etc etc etc…………….

    Unless something is evidently offensive, I say those that purport to take offense at it be asked politely and kindly to stop being part of this excellent forum, so that those of us who have open and flexible minds are able to continue enjoying it without it being hijacked.


    DannyBoy
    Participant

    Facebook and Twitter are places where you can say what you want, and if you enjoy those places, then you are a better man than me.

    Tom, I think you will find that is not the case as a former US president has had his accounts suspended as they did not feel it suited their own political agenda/views. I gave up my FB account a year ago and permanently deleted it after watching a Netflix documentary called “The Social Dilemma”. I have not looked back or regretted my decision.


    Poshgirl58
    Participant

    I think the saying “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” applies to this situation.

    When a well-known travel review site (with green logo) opened a forum, I posted a couple of times. Very quickly it became obvious any favourable comments would be met with personal insult and being told I wasn’t welcome. My “crime”, posting positive comments about my experiences with Monarch when others were critical of the lesser known Eastern European airlines MON was using for a couple of years.

    “We are a magazine and a news website, not a forum with a news site attached” sums up this and other sites perfectly (thanks Tom). Today, on the site I mentioned in the now cancelled thread, there are contributors querying why it’s so quiet. All posted on the thread explaining why the previous contentious topics have been deleted. The moderator commented it was due to Christmas preparations, so he’s still in denial about the problem IMO. For a site that claims to be supporting the aviation industry, they’ve lost their way. Unsurprisingly, the two perpetrators have not contributed to any aviation-related topic since!

    Unfortunately, social media has given a voice to a minority who just want to spout hate on any subject. Last year, a senior BA captain suspended his tweets because he’d received some hate messages. The general gist was he didn’t deserve a job and he was privileged. Thankfully, he returned and continues to provide very interesting content.

    Tom and his colleagues find themselves in a very difficult situation. We, as contributors, value their attempts to allow free speech but we should be mindful that not everyone contributing here has the same mindset. It’s not compulsory to sign up…..

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    CathayLoyalist2
    Participant

    As Esselle said “Unless something is evidently offensive, I say those that purport to take offense at it be asked politely and kindly to stop being part of this excellent forum, so that those of us who have open and flexible minds are able to continue enjoying it without it being hijacked”

    …on that I entirely agree. I would say with confidence that the vast majority of people on this forum will know wnat they are about to post is or is not offensive.As we are all seeing, the threat to free speech is real but that threat must not succeed.

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    FormerBA
    Participant

    I asked Tom via email to remove the comment which included the “R” word and which I feel is as repugnant and unacceptable as the use of the “N” word. If it would not be acceptable to openly use a word in the office, home or public space to describe an individual, then why would it be acceptable to use it in a forum. I do not believe that this falls into the category of “cancel culture,” or an assault on free speech. It is simply common decency in the modern world.

    I also explained to Tom that I had concerns that the individual who used that word, incorrectly identified me as being the complainant on the airline acronym thread. This was not corrected but I am happy to make that clear now.

    In my professional and personal life I could never be described as a shrinking violet or delicate. I am happy to engage in robust debate and can give as good as I get but I hope I can do this using the English language and without resorting to or offensive words.

    I hope this adds some context to what happened.

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    Swissdiver
    Participant

    Sad times indeed, as too many stop using their brain and react on emotional grounds, often overemotionally.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
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