[PaulJennings]

Now we’ve started on unruly children I suspect the floodgates will really open. For years I’ve been advocating a no-BOB airline (no Brats-On-Board: brats in this sense can refer to the useless parents as well as their screaming children). Smoking has gone, why not screaming?

[PaulRWoods]

Children below a certain age, I think of less than 3 years cannot compensate for the difference in airpresure between cabin and their cavities around the nose and forehead. Try flying with a serious could which blocks your sinuses. Then you ill know what the screaming of the little kids is all about. When we were travelling with babies my wife tried nursing (breast feeding) – it helps somewhat. But not all airlines allow nursing a baby.

[MarcusUK]

I think we are talking about kids those that shout out “I Want”, & hassle other people when they don’t get it.

I watched a child do the same in Waitrose a month ago, mother was dis-interested even when the 7 yr old screamed abuse in the store. We were all supposed to put up with it.

then he pout his hand up & pulled down the whole displays on shelves walking along…and they all walked off!

Hard as it is flying, if kids cannot behave & hassle others or run up & down etc, then they shouldn’t be brought to fly. Health & Safety, & confined spaces apply to children also…

I shall ensure a spare straitjacket is in my cabin bags in future…!!

[Lin–ny]

Agree with you JoyceWong2

[Hess963]

Hi everyone !

I just want to share you my recent flight with CX from BAH to HKG in C Class. I was sitting in the front row. A family of four with mom and dad as well as one infant and a 19 months old girl. Mom was busy with the infant and sit on the left front seats with the bassinet, while dad and little girl sit behind my row. Both children have some periods of silence and have some very loud periods as well–where sleep or peace on this night flight was impossible. Luckily I had a chat with the father while standing at the gate on the lane for boarding and learned a bit from one another. So the two children are not that stranger to me before boarding. The parents are very aware of the situation that some C pax have no tolerance at all–when young children or infants get loud. So they tried their best to comfort the children and be quiet or settled. As I sit in the middle row of this A330 regional configuration. Most of the pax going to the loo on the right side of the plane were crossing my seat. I never had such a traffic infront of me–I had the feeling I had to be careful not to be overruned by the crossers!

So what do I feel after such a flight? Actually I was calmed, because I had the impression before the flight that the parents are aware of the situation and tried their best not to disturb the others. Regarding those crossing situations. I am honest–there are times where I just spread my legs so wide appart that no one dared to cross me. I definitely think it is really rude to cross over someone in such manner. They just have to take the effort and go through the galley

[SimonRowberry]

My son (now 10) has been flying with me since he was around 2 years old, almost always in Business Class, both short-haul and long-haul. Never on one occasion has he (to my knowledge) caused problems to any other passenger.

This, I think, is for three reasons. Firstly, he is one of those fortunate people who is able to go to sleep wherever he is (I think he could sleep on a bicycle) so he tends to get on board, have some food and then go to sleep. The second reason is that he knows that if he did annoy other passengers, he wouldn’t be travelling up front with me again. In my case, this works.

Finally, I think he also knows that if he is well behaved he will often get incredibly spoilt by the FAs – he has a wonderful collection of airline cuddly toys and models of aircraft collected over the years.

Simon

[David]

Somewhat of a digression from the orignal theme of this thread, but allow me to continue!

Hess – nice to have you confirm that parents get some positive points by showing that they are conscious of the (potential) disruption their children may have on the other pax. Being a relative new parent, I am certainly aware of this now!

And what to do if your little one is not acting with appropriate decorum?

We took our infant to Dubai last month and unfortunately she didn’t quite have her fellow passengers’ best interests at heart. We were flying Lufthansa’s A340-600 service (ex Munich) and fortunately I discovered the fantastic cargo deck toilet area, located at the foot of a wide stairway in Economy. Our little joy could, well ummm, express herself to her heart’s content with no one else any the wiser! For hours. The missus slept “like a baby” in 3A, comfortabely unawares of the sacrifices her husband had made in the interest of cabin peace…

Simon – do you or your son make house calls? I can see a potentially lucrative counselling business in the makings. With (family) trips planned to both the US and Hawaii over the next 4 weeks, our little joy could certainly be one of your first patients….I mean, customers.

[SimonRowberry]

Home

I think that there are a number of strategies that can be applied. I do however, entirely agree with Hess and others that if parents appear to be conscious of their child(ren)’s behaviour, then it is easier to tolerate in general.

Paul’s comment about air pressure and child physiology is also absolutely true. In my experience, there is very little positive that one can do when travelling with a child below the age of initial comprehension development (say 18 months to 2 years) apart from pray that they have a “good day today.”

In terms of strategies for children 2-plus, I would suggest the following, again based on personal experience:

1. Get them a window seat. This keeps their interest, especially if there is also an Airshow. By giving them this seat, you’ve also got them penned-in and can exercise some direct control over their aisle forays! If travelling with my wife as well, she always sat in the seat directly behind Dan. The logic for this is that if kids want to look around, they will stand on the seat and potentially annoy the pax directly behind them, rather than the one in front (as they can’t reach when standing on the seat). My wife could then exercise direct control with a rear flanking manouever.

2. Get them a Nintendo or Gameboy (a freestanding, self-powered pocket console). Also, if possible, a new game before the trip. This will keep them occupied in the lounge, when boarding and in the early stages of the flight (and as an alternative to the AVOD if no decent kids movies). BUT remember the charger and any adapter needed to keep it stoked-up in flight!!

3. Use a mixture of threats/bribery if they start to play up. Threats include “This is the last time” and “I’ll get the Captain to turn the plane around if you don’t behave” – this latter threat tends only to work up to the age of about 8, by which time most kids will understand the logistical impossibility of this threat being implemented. You could, in such an event, remind them that the plane has to put down if someone dies, but this may be a slightly extreme strategy (or not, perhaps). A further threat is that next time they’ll fly economy – best reinforced on a full overnight trip, with a quick demonstration by taking the child on a brisk walk down the aisle, to experience the Black Hole of Calcutta at first hand. Bribery includes starting, there and then, to plan the next trip (the incentive approach) and negotiating how much pocket money they’ll get when they arrive, based on how well they behave (the blatant corruption approach). It also helps when the FA’s start making a fuss and distributing the free cuddly toys/aircraft models/colouring books/valium (for the parents) etc.

4. Ensure that you book a child’s meal in advance, AND check out at the time of booking the likely components of such a meal. I’ve had some carriers who are great at the kids’ meal and others who think Canard d’Orange with chips rather than Dauphinois potatoes constitutes something that the youngsters will drool over.

5. Finally, when they have been well-bahaved, reinforce this by thanking them and again explaining that there were other pax on the flight who’d spent a lot of money and were doubtless grateful for their good behaviour.

Having said all that, travelling with kids above 2 years in Business Class does, in my experience, have its downsides. Dan is now a bit of a travel snob and is never happy when we travel in economy. Also, the first corporate logos he recognised (before he could read) were SAS, Finnair (or “Fat Air” as he calls them – he thought I said they were called “Thin Air”), Hilton and Holiday Inn (“Horrible Inn”).

I think the trauma caused by the Aeroflot logo retarded his reading development by about 6 months………

Hope some of this helps! Good luck, Home (sounds like you might need it!).

Cheers,

Smon

[MarcusUK]

Simon, you clearly have good parenting skills.

If only every child travelling would have those values n been briefed about consequences, not just informed intelligently why on a plane you cannot run up n down. Babies are one thing, kids that are allowed or decide to let rip, & un-interested parents are another.
My SQ trip where i was calm direct but told the child how to behave & why, was also a message to the parents, that clearly were embarrassed but agreed. We are lucky in the premium classes for space privacy, & kids in their are better behaved if they are (Expensive family trip though eh?).

In Economy for kids, it is cramped, stuffy sometimes, & if i saw some of the food coming my way or was sat next to someone of overgenerous proportions sat next to me for 12 hrs, I would cry also!

[David]

Many thanks Simon for such a thorough and detailed reply. Some good advice indeed.

While the “Black Hole of Calcutta” tour may not do much to persuade our 8 month old to act appropriately, I will certainly have to keep that in mind for my wife!

“I’m sorry Madam but it appears we have just one glass remaining of the Cuvée Louise – shall I pour it for you or for your husband…?”

[Charles-P]

Sorry to be blunt here but nobody under the age of about 12 should be in Business or First.

[SimonRowberry]

Charles
sorry to be equally blunt, but that’s utter tosh.
The only bad behaviour I’ve experienced up front has been from business travellers over the age of 12, not from kids. Equally the same is true in lounges.
My son travels at my expense. He is courteous and respectful. Unlike far too many of the ego-centric bufoons, travelling at someone else’s expense and acting like spoilt children, that I have witnessed up front on far too many occasions, alas.

Perhaps that is one reason my son gets on so well with many FAs.
The point is, Charles, you can’t generalise about kids OR about business pax. It’s about individuals and individual behaviour.
Simon

[NTarrant]

Simon – I think you are what is called a “responsible parent” who trains his children to act as you would expect others. Sadly there are some people who don’t fall in that category and let their off spring run riot on lounges when people are trying to relax or do work.

It is the parents that are to blame, I have had some journeys spoilt by horrible children. But then when I travelled to DXB in First last week there was a cuple with a child, clearly under 2, my first thought was “oh no” but to be fair, not a peep throughout the journey.

As usual its the minority spoiling it for the majority who are responsible like yourself

[LuganoPirate]

Simon, NTarrant, fully agree with both of you. But are we not all wandering from the original thread of this topic.

Talking of obnoxious paxs though, we had a Swiss german couple in the F cabin flying to JNB from Zurich. They were rude, arrogant and thorougly unpleasant.

Despite me being 50+ it is amazing how the schoolboy in me came out as I set about annoying them in small subtle ways, such as opening the window blind between our seats at 5am flooding her with African sunlight and waking her with a start.

Final revenge was extracted when she opened her bag on arrival and a chocolate Santa fell out. To the delight of the FAs I managed to “accidently” stand on it. Mean – yeah! But what satisfaction.
Oh, and the fat man in this story of course was poor ol’ Santa.

[SimonRowberry]

Nigel – yes, it’s all down to individuals (I’m beginning to sound like Brian in the Python movie). I also wouldn’t say my parenting is anything special – it could be argued that those of us who do take positive charge of our offspring are possibly those that are not noticed by others!!

Lugano Pirate – nice one, indeed! These are exactly the sort of obnoxious passengers I was referring to in my last post. I must admit to also gaining enormous pleasure from acting like a juvenile and exacting revenge on such people where possible. I too (and you obviously as well, LP) am capable of acting like a child. Indeed, I’m doubtless much more annoying to my fellow pax in First or Business than ever my child is – but only in the sort of circumstances that LP suggests. And it IS immensely satisfying when you get some (even minor) revenge on such ignorant dolts and buffoons.

My favourite revenge (although I played only a small part myself) was on an SAS flight Birmingham-Copenhagen a long time ago. I was in Business Class with a colleague. A large American man boarded and sat across the aisle from us. He was utterly off-hand and unpleasant, to the FAs and to those of us around. He proceeded to place his hand baggage under the aisle seat next to him – this was a Q400 with 2-2 seating.

When the pax boarded who was sitting in the (now legroom-less) aisle seat, he refused to remove his hand baggage from under the aisle seat (the plane was pretty much full), telling both the passenger and the FA that the passenger should move to another seat, and how it was the FA’s fault that there was insufficient stowage space in the overhead bins. He was also complaining about how tight the connection he had to make at CPH was and how generally “shitty” SK were.

The FA instructed him to move the bag and to place it on his lap for the duration (I’m not sure how legal this was, but it was funny). The American chap then (once the FA had gone) made it clear to the pax in the aisle seat that he would “sort him out” on arrival. This was clearly a physical threat – the American made this threat whilst standing in the aisle, so several of us could clearly overhear.

To cut a long story short, the aisle passenger was quite afraid of the situation (especially as he knew there was a bus transfer at CPH rather than an airbridge) and expressed these fears to us whilst the American was away from his seat at a point during the flight.

We persuaded the pax to inform the FA of the threat. He did so and, on arrival at CPH, a large Danish policeman was waiting at the bottom of the steps. He then detained the American (this has nothing to do with his nationality, by the way, it’s just the easiest way to identify him) and asked the aisle passenger, myself and my colleague (whom the FA had pointed out to the policeman) if we could spare a moment, as witnesses to the incidents.

In short, he conducted a brief interview in a spare bus, there and then on the tarmac! The American kept complaining about his connection time and how it was the only connection of the day. The more he complained, the more the cop delayed him. In the end, the bus took the four of us to the terminal and no charges were pressed against the American by the aisle passenger. However, by this time, the “gentleman’s” connection was in the air. Sweet justice indeed.

Simon

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