T5 Gate notification

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  • DisgustedofSwieqi
    Participant

    Dutchyankee

    The GVA units (which I have not encountered, as I am an infrequent user) sound similar, but a little more integrated than the LAX ‘bus stops’, where literally the pax are loaded on to busses, driven for a considerable distance and then offloaded into these buildings.

    Each building serves only one flight and IIRC (was 10 years since I was there) serves only one aircraft.

    IIRC, Oslo Fornebu used to have some similar tunnels, but they led to the stands.

    I agree about the lack of lifts.


    dutchyankee
    Participant

    DisgustedofSwieqi,

    I had no idea they were single aircraft stands, bizarre. I think Munich has some stands like that, but not as far off the main terminal, but I might be wrong.


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    Does BA allocate the gates, or is it BAA? If it is BA, do BAA hold up the display of flights from T5B to keep people in the main shopping area?

    As BA has the entire terminal it should be able to decide which flights go to which gates, should it not?


    Binman62
    Participant

    BA manages the stands in T5 and its surrounds and is the only airline at LHR to do so. BAA manages the stands for the rest of LHR.

    BA control their operations from the Heathrow Centre located in the middle of the T5 building and one floor below departures.

    It is a highly complex matter and there is no doubt they do a far better job in T5 than in T1 or T4 simply because of the geography. But they have also invested significantly in systems and people and justifiably recognised as experts on stand planning at LHR. The geography and restrictions at the airport mean that they can never compete with the likes of AA in Chicago and other major US hubs.

    This is because there is;

    1.) Insufficient stands in general at LHR (it operates at 98% most of the time) as such it is difficult to find parking places for aircraft on the ground for more than a standard turnaround time.

    BA have the benefit of the engineering base but this is 2 miles from the terminal and whilst T5 has now eliminated the need to tow across a live runway, it is still a resource intensive operation to move aircraft to and from the base. It is also subject to ATC by the tower and live movements are generally given preference. Remember that BA long haul aircraft are at home base and as such there are greater engineering checks and ground time is a minimum of 3 hours.

    2.) Short haul flying is notoriously subject to delays which can be caused by anything from missing passengers to en route ATC delays and restrictions on the flow rate into LHR. The flow rate restrictions are a matter for ATC who will reduce the rate due to weather, runway restrictions and en route weather such as high tail winds etc. When the flying programme is delayed in this way it impacts on the “stand plan” and changes have to be made.

    3.) In general BA are able to publish the gate for a long haul departure around 3 hours prior to departure time as this is the standard ( minimum time) that is required at LHR for the aircraft to be on stand. It is possible to publish earlier if a known long haul arrival is linked with a specific departure and in such instances the departure gate could be published as soon as an aircraft arrives on that stand. The problem is that if a change then takes place it is harder to get passengers to the right place. If that change is from B to A then because of the design, it is a near impossibility to get passengers back to A.

    4.) Short haul planned turn round times vary. BA short haul fleet operate a fly by day fix by night regime approved by the CAA and so during the day LHR is considered a transit point for short haul aircraft. The time on the ground can be anything from 90 minutes to just 45 minutes, less if the inbound service is late. If you publish a short haul gate before the aircraft is there can not only impact on getting passengers to the right place but also will reduce the airlines flexibility in swapping aircraft to try and bring the flying plan back on track. It is also used to prioritise higher revenue routes and those with restrictions on arrival points such a German and Swiss airports with noise restrictions.

    In short BA plan and deliver their own gate use, but they are restricted by the design layout and availability of stands. A not so widely known fact is that if you arrive in T5B within 90 minutes of your connection then you will be permitted to stay in T5B and your gate number will be on the board. If you arrive more than 90 minutes then you will be directed to T5A and this is to keep the numbers of people in T5A at a level that is safe and stipulated by the BAA. As such BA are not permitted by the BAA to publish Gate details for long haul until 90 minutes before departure.

    Moreover the inability to move from T5B to T5A ( or from T5C to either when complete) is entirely the result of cost cutting by the BAA during construction. Similarly the air bridges at either end of T5B are as long as they are for the same reason.

    It is also true that in the past BA have been specifically prevented from publishing gates earlier. Famously when based in T1 and T4 they ran a “Bored Waiting, Board Earlier” campaign and gave stickers and handouts to passengers. The campaign lasted two days before it had to be withdrawn following protests from the BAA and retail outlets.

    It is not that anyone is anti BAA but rather that the BAA is predominantly a retailer rather than an airport operator and I for one would like to see more of the latter in their planning. Almost every major complaint about T5 has a root cause that can be taken back to a decision to protect retail rather than improve the customer experience.

    I am a fan of BA but in recent weeks / months their operational performance has slipped and customer service also. I have also been highly vocal on the lack of redemption oppotunities and the costs of being loyal as a UK based executive club member and originating passenger. These issues for me tip the scales in favour of trying other carriers. I have to say however that their skill at managing the stand/gate allocation is (IMHO) the best out there and it is doubtful that anyone faced with the same unique circumstances could do a better job. Certainly not the BAA who’s performance in the other terminals, and especially in T3 is simply appalling.


    DisgustedofSwieqi
    Participant

    “It is a highly complex matter and there is no doubt they do a far better job in T5 than in T1 or T4 simply because of the geography.”

    Absolutely right, the control room in T1 was nightmare and T4 little better.

    Also, in days gone by, BA suffered from the lack of an integrated stand planning and management system, using Excel workbooks for these activities, believe it or not, but as Binman says rightly, made a big investment in people, processes and IT systems.

    By taking a holistic, rather than an IT centric view, the result is an integrated system that works well.

    BA can be proud of their stand planning and management – if they had a decent aerodrome to operate out of, this would be more apparent.


    JordanD
    Participant

    Binman, can I just say that your response was not only a joy to read, but also potentially the best response I’ve seen to any question answered on the threads on this forum – full, concise, to the point and yet extremely detailed.

    Thank you for taking the time to post it.


    Charles-P
    Participant

    Binman’s is correct in noting that an airport is focused on retail sales rather than flight movements. Indeed most retailers at Heathrow refer to BAA as ‘Build Another Aisle”. The point here I think is how well is it done, I travel to both Stockholm and Copenhagen and there the shops, food outlets etc are a compliment to the airport and yes I have spent money there (even when I didn’t intend to). Compare this to say Orlando where it’s just another US mall with some aircraft parked outside or the tacky horror that is Dubai.

    As ever taste is all.


    DisgustedofSwieqi
    Participant

    Agree about the shops at CPH and also feel the same way about BCN.


    lostantipod
    Participant

    Well, either I was unlucky this week (again…), or Binmans response is just a little apologist in bias.

    Focusing back to the OP’s question: “why BA doesn’t print gate numbers on boarding cards nor do they annouce them (on screens) at T5 until the plane is boarding?”

    There must be another answer. I was scheduled to fly out of T5 at 7am last tuesday morning. After enjoying the traditional bacon buttie in the BA north lounge 🙂 I noted that my flight boarding time of 0630 was imminent yet no gate was displayed. I asked the Lounge Reception if there was a delay , and she told me no, and told me the gate was A19. So I collected my gear, walked the length of T5, and spent at least 5 more minutes websurfing on my ipod near A19 before the gate was confirmed on the screen . The gate staff were at A19 the whole time – but the screens at the gate did not show the flight until it appeared on the general screens.

    So, the gate was known to BA well before it was posted. I would not want to be late for business appointments – after getting up at 430am to be there on time – because pax are late joining the flight , and we miss our slot .

    Lack of gates? Disrupted incoming flights? Bollocks – not at 630 in the morning. Lost shopping revenue ? Possibly – I cant remember if other BAA/Ferrovial airports I have used dont show gates til the last minute.

    Plane going tech? I concede that maybe there was a last minute tech issue and BA were nervous about sending pax to the gate and then changing the gate or delaying the flight.

    Only , as the OP also feels, this isnt the first time this has happened; so , does that suggest last minute tech glitches are more frequent than we realise ?

    Happy travels !


    Charles-P
    Participant

    lostantipod – I do not think you were unlucky I think this is marketing policy. My regular Brussels to Stockholm-Arlanda flight leaves from the same gate at Brussels every single time ( I fly there three times a month) and yet there is no indication until 15 minutes before the departure. It is a 15 minute walk from the shopping area to the gate – coincidence ? I think not.


    JordanD
    Participant

    Sorry to blow your BAA theory into the sky (hat tip for anyone who gets the reference), but as a regular Edinburgh user, I’ve often seen pre-allocation of gates significantly in advance of the scheduled departure time, which considering the walk from shop-to-gate can be as little as 10 seconds, somewhat dispels the theory that this happens at all BAA ouposts.

    In fact at Stansted, I’ve often had the gate allocated and the screen show as “Boarding” when the incoming aircraft hasn’t even arrived.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    I can normally get an accurate gate location at check in or from the Lounge Dragons well before it is publicised on the screens.

    BUt as I mentioned previously, this is always with the caveat that a technical or other fault might develop, and last minute switches do occur; there is always a risk leaving T5a before the B gates are announce don the screens.


    ImissConcorde
    Participant

    Rather than moving on to T5D might it not be a good idea for the BAA to finish building T5B? In the planning stages post 9/11 this was shortened based on revised passenger forecasts.


    Binman62
    Participant

    lostantipod…….If your aircraft was a night stopper at LHR then there is no excuse and it is entirely within BA’s control to post the gate number. Indeed all “first wave departures” which have night stopped at LHR should be published and should be on boarding passes from around 9pm the night before. If you use on line check in then gate numbers will not appear if you check in 24 hours in advance.
    .

    On the matter of late passengers, the data showed that the majority of passengers who boarded late had passed through security late. As a result T5 is designed to stop this. You must pass through the BAA check point by -35, though this can and is adjusted for individuals as required. The time also varies for transfer passengers depending on what stand you arrive on and where you are departing from.

    If you do not pass conformance by this time a prompt is sent to the flight controllers and steps will be taken to prevent bags being loaded.

    That staffs have access to gate information should not be a surprise as the gate and stand numbers are required in order that servicing of the aircraft can take place. In addition, the system used to plan and manage gate allocation requires that gate numbers are published but that information is inhibited from displaying on passenger boards as it changes frequently, literally hundreds of times a day.

    Most but not all long haul services depart from T5B but it would be foolish to go there prior to being advised by the boards as getting back is very challenging for reasons previous mentioned and the system for offloading baggage is a great deal slicker than in the past. They will not wait when they can find your bags
    .
    I am no apologist for BA (I wish you could be a fly on the wall when I next talk to customer relations about my experience before Christmas) but whatever my views on their many failings, you have to give them credit where it is due. They operate in what is unquestionably the most challenging and congested international airport in the world. The facilities are inadequate from just two runways to a lack of stands, and a landlord whose focus is not on what it should be. Could they improve?, of course they could.

    That other airports around the country and the world can and do have greater gate/stand planning stability is testament to how difficult LHR is, not how bad BA is at managing the issue.


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    Binman62, thanks for your excellent reply!

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