[Anonymous]

[AMIN1205]

Hi! I would like to know what other travellers think of the two alliances? I am an AF-KL Platinum member which would be somehow SENATOR of LH, but I think the way that AF handles its members are lagging far behind LH. Beside among members of SKY TEAM, every one is trying to do its own program and there is no harmony as it is mostly (but not always) with STAR ALLIANCE.

Should we boycott AF-KL?

Thanks

[JonathanCohen09]

Hi AMIN1205,

what an interesting thread to have started and it is a very good question.

I hold Platinum membership of the Skyteam Alliance through Czech airlines and so I cannot comment on AF/KLM programme but on Skyteam in general. I can however tell you that I have, so far, been very well treated by any Skyteam carrier that I have flown with and have received full recognition for the status that I have including many paid for and redemption flights on AF/KLM so i would never boycott them!

I also had Gold status in Star Alliance through my Senator card with Swiss and I was also well treated by any Star carrier that i flew with.

There have been some issues with the various carriers programs being harmonised but I have not found there to be too many problems.

the reason I ultimately decided to consolidate and use Skyteam as my preferred alliance was the ability to redeem miles in Y or C. In all the time that I have been a member of Skyteam and that is more tham 5 years I have never not been able to redeem miles to a destination I wanted to get to on or within 2 or 3 days of my chosen dates on a combination of Skyteam carriers.

I almost always had problems with Star redemption unless it was on my home carrier, Swiss.

Before everyone who are fans of Star Alliance jump down my throat, i realise that this is just me. I am sure that many Star members will have had no trouble with redemption and many Skyteam members will have had problems with redemption as well, i am simply sharing my experience with you. I think that I am lucky as the Czech programme is very good.

If you have any additional questions then I will be happy to try and answer them.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

[gordo66]

I believe that you should decide based on where you live, what class you fly, how good is the flight experience on every airline, where you fly, and the value of the FFPs for you.
Let take me for example – I live in Israel. and am BD*G, as well as LY GOLD.

Where I live – there are more *A flights in TLV then OW and ST flights combined (*A flights control about 19% of the Israeli flight market).

Where I fly – I fly 2 times a year to the USA, 3-4 times a year to London, and 2 more times to other regions in europe.
USA – *A has 3-4 daily flights based on the season (2 CO, 1 US, 4-7 weekly AC). ST has 10-13 weekly based on the season (1 DL daily to JFK, 3-6 weekly ATL). OW has none. LY has 4 daily in summer (5 weekly LAX, 14 weekly JFK, 6-8 weekly EWR, 3-4 weekly YYZ) and 3 daily in winter (3 weekly LAX, 10 weekly JFK, 6 weekly EWR, 3 weekly YYZ). Therefore, I rulled out OW.
London & Europe – Most of the flights to Europe are with LY as they have the biggest number of dest. out of Israel.
*A to EU destinations – FRA, MUC, BRU, VIE, ZRH, WAW, IST, BCN (and there are rumors that TP will start flights to TLV by Oct).
ST – CDG, AMS, PRG, FCO.
OW – LHR, MAD, Bucarest.

How I fly – I always fly business class. Therefore, I rulled out ST (as all of there europe flights out of TLV has the european business class seats, while LY has special business class seats on all aircrafts, and *A only serves TLV with widebodies [except for some IST flights, but I dont fly there anyway and all BRU and BCN flights, but when I fly to Europe I usually fly to Germany, Switzerland, Vienna or Italy]).

Value of FFPs – I want to be a top tier member at least of one of LY and *A, as I ruled out OW and ST. Therefore, I chose BD as my *A FFP – because they require low amount of miles to become gold – only 38000 (while LH wants 100000 and CO 50000). Althought that I am BD*G I fly most of the times with CO (as AC & US buisness class gives less EQM) or with LH/LX/OS when I fly to their direct EU destinations. When I need to fly other EU destinations, I always take LY.

So I think that you should pick your FFPs as I did.
Hope I helped. Please tell us which FFPs you decided to register to, and if you have any other questions you should ask them over here, and I will try to answer you the best way I can (as well as other users ofcourse.

[AMIN1205]

Thanks to both of you Gentlemen,

I guess then the problem really lies with Flying Blue of AF-KL.

Generally redeeming miles are impossible, or very expensive, beside I don’t even tell you about how the Flying Blue call center treats you. It reminds me of the good old days of Aeroflot in Soviet Union……

I am not sure whether Delta or other airlines of Sky Team handle their Frequent Travellers as does AF.

And don’t even waste time to write to customer service of AF or Flying Blue….

I look forward to have comments also from other Sky Team or Flying Blue members…

Thanks

[gordo66]

When CO was part of the SKYTEAM I was a GOLD member of their program. i got a good treat, finding redemptition seats was vey easy. But I only flew CO – I liked them more than I like DL and I didnt wat to fly with ST to EU as I previously wrote. But that was in the times when AC was the only *A airline that served Israel from North America, and therefore I was not able to be a *G.

My strategy is not go for PLAT at one airline on one airline but two GOLDs on two airlines from different alliances. So maybe you wold like to become FB GOLD and BD*G or BA GOLD, so you will have access for two alliances instead of one?

Remember that as a member of BA you can also fly on EC services from ORY to EWR & IAD if you are located in Paris.

[DavidHTW]

If you’re resident of ST home-base country , FFP of ST should be good choice for you. Otherwise, I don’t recommend. The treatment of *A is more consistant than ST. The main difference is excess luggage….*A allowed 20kg+ for Gold member, ST only applied to the Elite member of own FFP. And no ST lounge access for domestic flight. All other condition are similar. By the way, Oneworld is the only alliance to allow Emerald member to get in first class lounge.

[MarcusUK]

I have been a Gold in SA, & found that their System is nowtoo big, too many Airlines too impersonal, FFP premium memberships still feel though you are cattle.

Likewise i have held my KLM Gold or equivilant for 15 yrs. I am London based.
Thie rSkyteam Lounge at LHR is impeccable better than 12 other i have been into, includinf SA SQ, EY, EK lounges.
T4 is getting better, the departure area is glass fronted spacious & the Skyteam Prmium check in are quick & very stylish.
(The Yotel above their is a superb place to stay eve before to be ready above, 1 min walk down to check in, no traffic hassles).

There are a few less quality Airlines in Skyteam, but i rarely take AF, mainly KLM some partners CZ MH, but the KLM side is superb.

However, the FB I agree has become very hard to earn miles, many partners like MH have a Pseudo sort of link, with few miles or benefits transfered commonly, this needs to be adjusted.
redeeming miles is also more expensive by %30+ since the changes.
they have a problem with on line Promo ( -50% redemptions) bookings for months, still not addressed, but if you call them as a gold or Platiunum member they will book them for you, even if their are only purchase seats avaialable. if they have a set you can have it.

Sad as AF are always rather abrupt, they run FB now, & it is much declined from when KLM ran the Flying Dutchman Program. Even KLM have to refer all back to them.

I have developed my Virgin Airlines group Gold, & with the positioning they will make as one Glocal Group end of the year, many Airlines they have based on different continents, then i shall maintain my Gold 30+ flights & keep the KLM brand as my choice. My BMI SA, (along with the Airline going to Low cost, many of the once great partners like SQ TG going downhill, has been ditched.
I am happy for a more contemporary approach, & for me Virgin will be this, as KLM are.

[AMIN1205]

Thanks Marcus for your comments, I must say that you are fully right to say since Air France is running the Flying BLue Program, it has much declined.

As far as I am concerned, I like travelling with KL, specially given the Schiphol Airport facilities and smooth connections, specially compared to the hell “ENFER PARISIEN” of Charles De Gaule.

Maybe we should propose to Business Traveller to prepare a survey of different frequent flyer programs, so that Airlines notice where they stand?

Cheers

[MarcusUK]

Very interesting point…BT tends to respond well these days.

I wonder what the membership levels are doing with the various programs. It seems to me, recent changes, that Airlines are making it harder & perhaps trying to shed premium members, & therefore lessen the financial liabilities of funding flights & benefits…

FB updates 1st April, I hear many Business travellers being downgraded this year, as they are travelling economy. More Premium independant self paid members are holding their tiers or making the Elite levels.

Can BT ask the major programs if there is a trend in % at least of an changes?

I admire & really enjoy the KLM style of travel, & Schipol itself, a great reflection of the Dutch, but AF simply does not have same approach in running the FB program, I agree.

[SimpleDXB]

As a Skyteam Elite Plus member (FB Gold), I find it interesting that ppl on here rate KLM at all.

Having recently flown (this month) with KLM long haul with European connection, I found their planes, lounges and service to be far below that of most other carriers (incl. AF). For me, the only half decent carrier on SkyTeam is AF, and I would only use them as a last resort… I would go so far as to say I would positively recommend people avoid using KLM at all costs unless there is no other alternative. World Business Class was appalling.

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