[RichHI1]

rferguson. Thanks for the info on the new seats on the BA scarebuses. Going to Europe is a rare occurence for me, I am far more familiar with the Longhaul configurations on AA, BA and CX.

[DClinPsy]

NTarrant:

“The inflight service is part of the trip as a whole so why should one accept a lower standard……
If a component of the trip is say an executive room at a Hilton and you go the lounge and are only offered a coffee and a bag of crisps, that would not be acceptable would it?”

Doesn’t make sense, you should compare Hilton exec lounge with Gallery or SilverKris lounge instead of inflight services, not to mention, you are only in your flight for a while, not actually based in it for days. So it is acceptable, not to mention its only a short flight and crisps only happen in Y which is not “Executive room”. 🙂

VK:

“Sorry Sweiqi, but you’re not correct to state there’s no business class on BA Domestic.
UK Business is what your ticket states if you fly fully flex Domestic, and it also entitles you to lounge access regardless of your status with oneworld.
The on board offering is broadly the same (apart from being seated further forward, where available).” WOW….. new low for business class…..

And

InfiniteFlyer, I agree with your last post, for short flight, I have given up on SQ for GA due to value and services where they are now quiet comparable..

while for “meaningful status symbol”, since you are based in Italy, why not join FlyingBlue? The last time I checked they have lifetime recognition, KLM has good service and extensive networks, Alitalia new J looks nice, and frankly speaking Delta is better than AA in the states! So, SkyTeam is not too shabby after all… 🙂

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Vintage Krug

Now you re clutching at straws, silly billy.

UK Business is the fare, not the class.

You cannot book a business class flight between London and Manchester, as rferguson says.

[RichHI1]

Swieqi, I understand your comment about fare not class and I think you have put your finger on the problem as to airlines it is a booking code (actually multiple J,I,C etc) .
Most people including airline managers have a fairly close agreement on what an extreme lost cost low service carrier offers – you get there or somehwere within 50 miles or so. You get charged extra for anything you want and you sacrifice frills for economy.
At the other end there is probably less agreement on what First Class ought to be (and even less on what gets delivered). For some it is status and feeling superior to the crowd in the back, for others it is comfort, convenience, luxury a host of things.
When you get to Business and the Coach + products there is very little common ground. For airlines it is a way of getting more money (remember Business is only 30 years old. I can remember 2 class transatlantic flights in the 70’s.) For some it is having power ports to work and the possibility to sleep badly so you could fly a crazy schedule and function, for others it has come to mean a luxury experience (particularly as Business replaced First Class in European Flights). For others it is about flexibility and lounge access…
Unless we can somehow agree on an objecive standard as to what Business and Coach Plus should be, we cannot be surprised if BA stiffs you with a Muffin or sells VK a boarding Pass with a different letter on it.
I am no apologist for the airline industry but maybe forums like this one could do everyone a positive favor and rather than complain about the really terrible offerings that many airlines cynically have, instead put together an objective shopping list of what Frequent Flyers could reasonably expect and what price premiums they could reasonably be persuaded to pay for it?

[rferguson]

“Unless we can somehow agree on an objecive standard as to what Business and Coach Plus should be, we cannot be surprised if BA stiffs you with a Muffin or sells VK a boarding Pass with a different letter on it. “

RichHi1 this has been my point all along. Although there is nevr going to be an industry wide agreement of what constitutes J or W class etc, people should have access to information stating EXACTLY what they are getting for their money in each of the classes.

The technology is there. If one can check in and pick a seat online then use their iPhone as a boarding card then surely it isnt too difficult for the airlines to produce an app or a section on their website where at a click you can see exactly the catering proposition on the flight, menus, seating configuration, what drinks are available, a picture of a seat relative to that cabin etc etc. Then at least you can decide whether that muffin for breakfast in World Traveller Plus justifies the extra amount you are going to pay for a bigger seat with more legroom so you won’t be getting off the aircraft with a ‘ive been ripped off’ feeling. Also, on the european sectors you won’t go hungry as if you have access to the type of ‘snack’ you will get and realise its a biscuit or some crisps (instead of the sandwich you thought it would be) you can at least decide in advance to grab something more substantial in the terminal.

I guess airlines rather not give out this information in advance though as it is a business where the marketing sems to over promise and under-deliver. I mean would an airline really want to advertise the fact that all it gives to passengers in Premium Economy for the pre-landing service is a muffin? I doubt it.

[InfiniteFlyer]

Wow. I’m quite proud of my first post generating just over a million replies already 🙂

I did start with a deliberately eye-catching title, but I did also want some advice, and it’s been very useful and interesting.

As it turns out I won’t be leaving BA, unless I relocate my UK pied-a-terre (SE London) to much closer to He-Throw, because BA & U2 are the only direct NAP-LGW carriers. So I will now need to disguise myself heavily and pretend not to be me on board. (In any case, airport aside, the NAP-LGW service is normally very good! It’s the Muffin of Transatlantic Meanness that I want to avoid).

The idea of making this positive, and getting the (regular flier) passengers to specify what they want at the various price points is a great one. I guess that the focus groups BA and others run *might* be doing this already – although they might also be asking me what words I associate with the colour “mint green”…

It’s pretty clear in my mind what I want. It may require some effort to collate and match about 10 million differing replies of course.

But short-haul economy needs to be clean, comfortable enough for a few hours, not over-crowded, and with some basic snack and drink service. (NB – a 7g bag of BBQ pretzels is not what we scientists normally call “a snack”). And enough toilets to go round too.

Short-haul business, which I *really want to keep*, should be more space (bum, elbow and suitcase), a hot meal, and some nice drinks.

Long-haul economy should be approached only with pain-killers and sleeping pills. Slightly more comfortable than current seats, slightly more space. And a firm focus on where you’re going, and how much fun you’ll have when you’re there.

LH economy-plus should be significantly more space, better food and drink treatment. The food per passenger could probably afford to go up by 500g/person, given that it’d add 10-20kg to the TOW.

LH business – gotta be beds (and ideally without footrests), plus nice food and drink.

LH first – no idea. Last time I flew first was AA to JFK 13 years ago, and it still had seats. The caviar, blinis and champagne were nice, though.

Since TOW and associated fuel burn are so very critical, we really should be asking people above high-average weight to pay more, per kg. Not only would it help with fuel costs, it would also help improve the seating experience for those of us under whatever weight is decided.

I doubt that could ever catch on, but I bet it’s been considered a lot.

[RogEdwards]

Business UK is definitely not business class – though confusingly it books into the J fare bucket and on the boarding pass the class for all domestic fares is shown as C so I can see how the perception has arisen.

But Business UK was originally just something that appeared on the BP to let you know that you have lounge access.

In someways itbis a way of letting BA charge business class prices without upsetting the accountants who still see an economy fare being bought.

The Viewtrip and Amadeus glossary of fare codes for BA lists J, C, D, I and R as “Business except UK Domestic Class”.

[Author]

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