[FormerlyDoS]

“There is the regrettable tendency on the part of many Brits to go in for a sad and sour dose of self-loathing and BA is a regular contender for victim status in this context.”

BA gets knocked here because it offers poor value for money and has a number of policies which are not FQTV friendly.

For example, forcing people to call the BAEC office in the country where their card is registered – so what do you do, when in a markedly different timezone and requiring immediate assistance?

I’d rather deal with LH or LX anytime, they are not perfect organizations, but they do understand the concept of service delivery better than BA (e.g. see preceeding para, I can call any M&M service center, anytime.)

[MartynSinclair]

“BA gets knocked here because it offers poor value for money and has a number of policies which are not FQTV friendly”

Passenger always remember the bad experiences and I agree FDOS that BAEC call centres are not exactly the stars of Customer Service.

However, what percentage of travel is redemption against revenue. I know none of us like to or see why we should, but where ever there is a barrier, just find a way to jump over it!

We are a great bunch of people here and as long as WE ALL feel “minded” I am sure solutions to most problems can be resolved.

I shall now go an enjoy the flotilla on the Thames and will stand near the Savoy as I am sure there will be no Q’s there today!!

Happy Jubilee weekend all.

[capetonianm]

The portion of travel that is against redemption is irrelevant. What is relevant is that BA (and in fairness, they are not the only ones guilty of this) buy passenger loyalty with these schemes and then make it as hard as possible to redeem what customers see, rightly, as an entitlement.

When I travel on a redemption ticket, I’m not travelling on a ‘free’ ticket – I’ve paid for that ticket with previous flights and with my loyalty, and am therefore entitled to the same level of service as someone who has purchased their ticket with cash.

The loyalty schemes on average represent a discount of about 0.7% (I did the sums a couple of years ago and it’s probably less than tnat now) which is pretty measly.

That’s why in many ways I prefer the ‘Stelios’ approach of ‘there’s no such thing as a free lunch so I won’t pretend I’m giving you one.’

[MartynSinclair]

capetonianm – 03/06/2012 10:46 GMT

“When I travel on a redemption ticket, I’m not travelling on a ‘free’ ticket”

I consider I am travelling on a free ticket, save for the add ons!

But I agree with your comment about expecting the same level of service.

[IanFromHKG]

AnthonyDunn, I have to say I don’t think CX/KA have their balance right yet. Quite apart from the fact that they compete directly on some routes (which I find bizarre, although in fairness some of these routes date back to a time when CX didn’t own 100% of KA), there isn’t a completely consistent rationale behind the divvying up of routes. For example, KA fly to Bangalore, CX fly to Mumbai and Delhi – why? There is a marked difference in the hard product, so wouldn’t it make more sense to have KA as the short-haul airline and CX as the medium/long-haul? I have to say, I would be very reluctant to fly KA to Bangalore, the whole idea makes me cringe!

[Tete_de_cuvee]

AnthonyDunn, buy your wife a copy of “Purple Cow” by Seth Godin.The old marketing methods are rapidly dying out with the innovations enabled by the internet, social networking etc – time to move on.

As to the Vauxhall analogy – at least they won European Car of the Year 2012. Its industry equivalent Walsh can only aspire to. Methinks Ian was over generous.

http://www.caroftheyear.org/winner/2012_60/coty

More Reliant than Rolls? 😉

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/clarkson-tips-over-reliant-robin

[RichHI1]

Ian from HKG I think there is desire to offer a more unifrom product within the teh Joint Business AGreements (AA/BA, AA/JL. AA/QF) notably on AA with free booze in coach and turn down service with pajamas, however the focus gets lost with fire fighting and now the Chapter 11. I think the unifromity of service intent is more within the the Joint Business Ventures rather than the alliances and within that there is a definite desire to maintain a national identity, which make sense.

[TheLion]

Love this old thread! Definitely worth revisiting in the current environment and climate change at BA don’t you think ?

[BA Gold guest list member]

An interesting question. I fly BA long haul in their premium cabins on a weekly basis, and agree with the comments on the variable quality depending on location.To some extent I think that is perfectly understandable and reasonable as it makes no commercial sense to try and offer a large Hugh quality lounge in a location where there is k lay one flight per day and is far easier to use another One World carriers lounge which will necessarily result in differing standards.

What astonishes me is that I have watched the standard offering from BA go down week by week, month by month across all areas and all cabins.

It feels as though BA is trying to turn itself into a budget airline. If any rebranding is required it will be to a Ryan air or Vueling type of airline.( where was the CEO from again).

Re- branding will become a necessity if the cuts continue much longer as they will no longer be able to claim to be a regular scheduled airline. BA feels to be trying to compare itself to a North American airline with suitably dumbed down standards and products, and is definitely not inspired to go for the standards of Asian carriers.

Ultimately they will lose their loyal customers in premium cabins of they keep reducing quality and offering.

offering to sell M and S product on board rather than catering in the economy cabin from January 2017 looks far more like their North American counterparts.

With poor seat layout, weak IFE and an ever weaker offering they are putting too much pressure on their front line crews who now tell me they spend more time apologising for their reduced standards than ever before.

Should they re-brand? Given the downwards spiral of their overall service levels they have no choice.

[AlanOrton1]

Is it not the US based carriers who BA consider their main rivals and see as their main ‘competition’ on long haul routes?

USA is a huge focus for BA, just look at where all their most recent new long haul routes are heading…

I don’t think they even pretend to compete with ME or Asian carriers, no doubt they’d say their people costs aren’t the same. While you could argue US carriers are more in line with BA with unionised staff etc.

I suspect as long as they feel they are making good money from their US routes, aren’t really losing too much to European carriers, BA will see themselves as doing a good job.

[Panda01]

As long the planes are always relatively full, BA will not change. They are doing well, despite the experience you get. Why would they need to re-brand? A re-brand would only cost money that they could give to their shareholders or use to buy new planes with less toilets and more seats.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=773337]As long the planes are always relatively full, BA will not change. They are doing well, despite the experience you get. Why would they need to re-brand? A re-brand would only cost money that they could give to their shareholders or use to buy new planes with less toilets and more seats.

[/quote]

Actually, this is non-sequitur.

It depends on the yield and if the airline has to offer deep discounts to fill its flights, it will have little option other than to improve product/service.

[Panda01]

<if the airline has to offer deep discounts to fill its flights>
This is might be a good thing. When it come’s around, people can get much cheaper tickets. If BA can’t get more people even with the discounts, then they will notice it and it will force them to improve their customer experience (well hopefully).

[MrMichael]

FDOS & Panda01 are partially right. If BA are having to discount to get fuller flights then they have 3 options.

1. Accept they have to discount to get reasonable load factors. That is only a problem if the discount squeezes margins too much to bring it below their threshold for profitability. The do nothing may be the best option.
2. Increase the service element so that the choice is BA rather than its competitors. The problem with that one depends on how many routes the problem exists. If it is a small number of routes then little point in spending more on fixing a problem than the problem is costing.
3.Reduce the availability on the routes that are a problem.

All of those could be a combination of all three. As I have said before, no profit in offering more than is profitable.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=773418]FDOS & Panda01 are partially right. If BA are having to discount to get fuller flights then they have 3 options.

1. Accept they have to discount to get reasonable load factors. That is only a problem if the discount squeezes margins too much to bring it below their threshold for profitability. The do nothing may be the best option.
2. Increase the service element so that the choice is BA rather than its competitors. The problem with that one depends on how many routes the problem exists. If it is a small number of routes then little point in spending more on fixing a problem than the problem is costing.
3.Reduce the availability on the routes that are a problem.

All of those could be a combination of all three. As I have said before, no profit in offering more than is profitable.

[/quote]

Option 4 – go out of business

[Author]

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