[canucklad]

Some might disagree with me, but here goes……..

My perfect airport…………

1) My new and top pet hate…..Self check-in booths, even worse check in and tag followed off by a separate bag drop off. ……If airlines correctly managed/manned check-in desks this tortuous, (usually aided by an airline employee anyway) interaction with a machine, that acts like 1 part of an airport Stonehenge barrier to get to a human being . This set up needs to go, the first set of security checks can start by the human interaction at the counter. For on-line check-in, create an algorithm that risk asses the IP address against other searches etc…..
2) Severely restrict hand luggage. It’s a matter of playing the odds. The more bags screened, the more chance the minimum wage contractor will miss something. 2a) Pay security staff a salary that reflects their responsibility. Also develop a system that can hold an individual accountable for missing something that was later used to put an aircraft in danger.
3) And I suspect most controversially for most people who contribute here……Get rid of fast track lanes. People shouldn’t buy privilege, one for all and all for one!!
4) Assume everyone is a risk………Get rid of profiling at security and before. In America and elsewhere there seems to be this mad perception that if you’re flying business or TSA pre-approved you’re no risk …….Wake up and smell the coffee, the 9/11 mob would most likely have breezed through based on their airline profile.
5) As everyone has already mentioned, the big bug bear is CONSISTENCY. People need to know what is expected of them at every airport, every time. This would also exclude the need to go through intermediary checks whilst transiting. .
6) Security staff that are trained to be cheerful, pleasant and understanding of the stressful position passengers sometimes find themselves in . If a supervisor see’s one of their people becoming grumpy, it’s a sign that all is not well, and guess what…..that would suggest they too are also stressed. Stressed staff don’t make good spotters of danger.

To summarise, more human beings managing the technology more efficiently and with more respect and courtesy

[Agamemnon]

I have the same issue at T3 with a clear plastic bag that I’ve been using ever since the rules came in. Never had a problem with it at T5 or anywhere else, except for T3. Also, try fitting 10x100ml (the maximum allowed) of real-world containers in one of those bags, it’s impossible.

I’ve found the trick is to lay it down flat in the tray. Often the initial staff give it a cursory glance, but nothing more, then on the scan it looks like a conventional sized bag.

[ParselTongue]

Reading all the above, reminds me why I now almost always check most of my luggage into the hold and carry the bare minimum hand luggage – a laptop, associated cables and business papers. The 10 or 15 minutes that is saved at the destination airport by carrying everything in hand luggage is not worth the extra hassle and stress of fighting through security (as outlined above) and then fighting to get the hand luggage stored in the overhead lockers. I’m even happy to pay out of my own pocket for the extra over a HBO fare where a client declines to pay it.

All that said, there are certain destination airports where I would avoid checking-in luggage – CDG at the top of the list. In contrast, almost always at FRA my luggage is there waiting for me when I exit the almost interminable passport control queue in Terminal 2, and I am relaxed and stress free without the worry of hand luggage – well almost, depending on whether I have fallen foul or not of whatever the latest BA screw-up (i.e. “enhancement”) has been.

[BrotherJim]

[quote quote=782529]David , smartly dressed men sat in business seats took over 4 flights in 9/11 with just box cutters , you’re right it nuts
Simple ideas to cause terror like driving lorries into packed crowds , it’s nuts , no one needs elaborate plans , just hide a blade in a passport and carry through instead of it going through the X-ray , it’s simple and it’s nuts ??

[/quote]

Andrew why would you bother to hide the blade in your passport? Why not just in your pockets, or indeed between your nether regions? And funny thing I’ve made 500 flights in the past 10 years, mostly international and I either have my passport in my hand or in my shirt pocket and never once have been stopped. And this includes 80 flights leaving the UK between 2007 and 2010.

[MrMichael]

My tip for 2017………just go with the flow….don’t get stressed. In all walks of life we get inconsistency…this is surely no more than a minor irritation during our travels and we should not let it ruin our day. Laptops out/in, shoes on/off, liquids in clear bag/their bag, belts on/off……just go with the flow.

Edited to add…….rude staff/polite staff……go with the flow….you don’t have to have lunch with them or marry them…just get past them.

[Andrew66]

Jim , in my 2 replies I have explained the reasons why a wallet or passport carried through rather than going through the X-ray would be checked , I explained the reasons why security had a issue with the points raised in the opening post by Martyn ( dft regs ) , I don’t know why someone would want to hide a blade in a passport ? Much like wanting to conceal explosives in a shoe ? Why did someone decide not to conceal a blade near their nether regions and decide to encase them in a pair of explosive underpants ?
I understand the main point around hand luggage and personal check at the security check is that ALL items go through the X-ray machine and you personally go through a metal detection archway , if the archway bleeps then you have metal on you ( or could be a random quote ) it might be you have left keys in your pocket , if you have a wallet or passport on you then it should be checked by the items either going back through the X-ray or personal check in case of concealment .

I agree with Michael , I just view it totally as a process , sometimes it’s good , sometimes ok , sometimes a long wait , I don’t look for a personal interaction or customer service like you would have in a restaurant or hotel for example , I just follow the guidelines of the dft link , take out iPad , take off shoes and not wear my belt , in the vast majority of cases I’ve not found the staff rude , but not friendly or smiling either like they were serving me a £3 coffee , I just view it as someone who is processing thousands of people a day with a repetitive task .

Michael , in some cases you do have to lunch with them and marry them !!

[MrMichael]

@Andrew66 You might choose to, surely you don’t have to! 🙂

[BrotherJim]

[quote quote=782727]Jim , in my 2 replies I have explained the reasons why a wallet or passport carried through rather than going through the X-ray would be checked , I explained the reasons why security had a issue with the points raised in the opening post by Martyn ( dft regs ) , I don’t know why someone would want to hide a blade in a passport ? Much like wanting to conceal explosives in a shoe ? Why did someone decide not to conceal a blade near their nether regions and decide to encase them in a pair of explosive underpants ?
I understand the main point around hand luggage and personal check at the security check is that ALL items go through the X-ray machine and you personally go through a metal detection archway , if the archway bleeps then you have metal on you ( or could be a random quote ) it might be you have left keys in your pocket , if you have a wallet or passport on you then it should be checked by the items either going back through the X-ray or personal check in case of concealment .

[/quote]

I carry my wallet in my pocket too and never had an issue either, well except once in Surabaya in Indonesia. And I think I have also made my point clear that if you could hide something in a passport or wallet you could hide it elsewhere too. Maybe we should all strip down and have our clothes scanned and then have a cavity search too.

[FDOS_UK]

The killer question is

– How many people have been caught by LHR security, with all their expensive technology?

– How many people have been caught at LHR, by El Al, using a human centric system?

I believe it is 0-1.

[Andrew66]

So as a deterrent I believe that is a good result ? I am assuming that there are some out there looking to exploit any weaknesses or opportunities ?

Jim , I believe that UK airports have undercover covert tests where females hide forbidden items in their cleavage and the men tape sharp metal items on their inner thigh to test the searching abilities of the staff .
If the staff are not happy with being able to find something they believe is secreted away then it is off to a private search with a witness to identify the problem , any difficulties there are plenty of armed police around to help keep control .

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=782761]So as a deterrent I believe that is a good result ?

[/quote]

I would rather put my trust in the intelligence services, who operate in the shadows and keep us safe.

The airport side is theatre designed to keep the vox pop positive and cover the authorities posterior.

[Andrew66]

Well of course that’s how it works , do you really think the intelligence services are going to let their targets get to LHR and its expensive technology and £10 an hour staff to sniff out the problem .
It’s like the copper on the beat solving crime it’s the undercover intelligence and surveillance that solves / stops crime , the beat stops the petty stuff and reports any info , same scenario at the airport .
It is a deterrent and works well within our total security policy , if no one has been caught at LHR security it shows the system is working well .

[FDOS_UK]

So, if I own an elephant gun, the absence of elephants in Lancashire shows it’s justified?

Not even 3rd form debating society level argumentation.

[JohnHarper]

The UK does appear to operate in a world of its own with regard to liquids and pedantic airport security. What I don’t understand is that if liquids are such a threat and there is no restriction in many places why planes are not being blown apart and falling out of the sky on a day by day basis.

Equally the calibre of goonery that one encounters at UK airports is well below the norms. I’m surprised to see Andrew66’s post above suggesting these people earn £10/hour. I thought the UK minimum wage was £7.20/hour and it’s hard to imagine airports paying any more than the minimum. Surely for 25% more than the minimum they could get a slightly higher calibre of moron?

Equally when you can buy the makings of a decent explosion in a duty free shop it just goes to demonstrate the ridiculous situation that is current, something Mrs May did nothing to review as Home Secretary in spite of the promises.

[Andrew66]

You don’t need an elephant gun , I’m sure the cold weather will suffice .
I agree with you that it’s ” theatre ” to satisfy the population , it’s part of the whole system though . The current policy and systems in the UK seem to be working well at present , that’s not to say everything is perfect but I trust our services to adapt and change if needed .

Apologies for not being at your intellectual level .

[Author]

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