[handbag]

AlanOrton1. Agree:)

[FDOS_UK]

As BA Crew, I have to totally disagree.

As BA crew, you do not seem to completely understand your companies policies and systems – a case of the right and left hands being disconnected – quelle surprise and it must be said, not the crew’s fault, if you haven’t been informed

BA, does not do the same thing. BA actively tries to sit pax together, although this cannot be guaranteed. If that fails , the Crew will do their best to try and move passengers around to accommodate those that are split up. It is a regular occurrence on a busy flight that Crew are trying to move a couple of people that are split up. those that are split up, are not normally those that have done online check in or check in early. This is more likely to happen if you are last in any queue in any situation.

This is not 100% correct – BA actively helps higher status BAEC members to have the pick of the seats (Gold and Silver at anytime, Bronze at -7 days) and then uses a piece of IS functionality named theoretical seating to reinforce this. As far as I understand the logic, it gives different seat map view to different categories of customers, meaning that GCH has a better choice than SC, who in turn have a better choice than BCH. I am unsure about the priority given to customers prepared to pay for seats relative to BCH/SCH, but I know from experience that I get a better choice as GCH and seats open to me, are blocked for purchase of for selection by BCH or SCH.

If the flight is full, ultimately those seats will be allocated to anyone.

My experience, of what I have seen and heard, is that people who pay for seating on BA, do not do it to ensure they are sat together, but ensure they get a particular seat they would like to sit in. There is a big difference.

With the greatest of respect, unless you have equal evidence from Ryanair passengers, you cannot say there is a big difference, it may just be that BA passengers still expect to be seated together on a ‘premium’ airline. They will learn in due course.

Ryanair’s policy, seems to have recently changed to something totally different. Deliberately splitting people up , so that they will be more encouraged to pay for it next time. BA do not do this.

Ryanair say their policy has not changed – you cannot assert this is the case nor that BA does not do this, since there is anecdotal evidence that theoretical seating will split a couple or group, to give higher status members a choice of desirable seats. Recently, I have found myself with a blocked seat (kept free) next to me on every flight which was not full and discreet enquiries revealed another GCH in the 3rd seat, on 3-3 config aircraft, on 2-3-2 (789) I’ve had an empty seat.

As Crew, we also have no problem at all with people moving to spare seats, within your cabin. In fact, it is the norm for Crew to point out to pax that there are spare seats if they wish to move and be more comfortable.

This is where it gets really interesting – your company has invested a lot of money in a system that is designed to give higher tier members a free seat next to them and then the crew may decide to override this to the benefit of passengers who were not intended to sit there and the detriment of the higher value customer – great alignment, n’est-ce pas?
Didn’t crew get briefed on theoretical seating?

[canucklad]

And at the other end of the scale, BA split up my mate and his girlfriend at online check in after he declined an earlier pre-selection fee option.
He was not amused as the flights in Y for the two of them to Florida was in excess of £1500.

But then, he’s just a normal punter with no status !!

[capetonianm]

The problem is that as British Airways downgrade their customer service levels, more and more of us will vote with our feet and the status attained will always be lower so they will have the excuse of not giving ‘free’ seating because we are lower status, it’s a bit of a vicious spiral to the bottom.

[AlanOrton1]

The OP was about Ryanair’s seating policy – shame the thread has drifted.

(I seen to recall a poster being dragged over the coals for having the temerity to digress just a little from a recent thread. Just saying….)

[handbag]

FDOS_UK

I am not disagreeing that Exec Card holders get a priority. As far as I am aware this is the situation with most major Airlines. This still normally leaves enough seats on a longhaul flight, that the majority of pax will be allocated a seat together. Cant comment personally on Shorthaul, but have friends who I have asked and they laughed when I told the you believed this to be true. All were appalled at what Ryanair, (if true) is supposed to be doing. This is not fiction , but fact that I see this every time I go to work.

If every can choose their seat by 24hrs before, as the flights are busier, then it is logical, that some will be spit up. what people are complaining about is being split up , when there are empty seats next to some of them and then being told they cannot move to her companion.

There is a thread on Moneysaving expert.com, where people have physically printed their boarding cards. One of them is showing 15 people in a group all who have been allocated centre seats. There are also lots saying that they have been told by Crew that they cannot move. I have never seen this on BA and it is not a policy. We actively encouraged people being sat together. Why would we not??? This is a fact.

There will always be systems in place to try and attract the frequent travellers and others to try and make more money on flights. BA are up for doing this in many ways, I agree. Deliberately splitting people up is not one of them.

I cannot be sure if Ryanair is deliberately doing this, as they say not. The pax that travel with them seem to think they are.

If I had a situation whereby there was a party of 15 all sat allocated in single, centre seats and there was free seats next to most of them. The first thing I would be doing is going through the pax list and seeing who I could move, then writing a report to say there is some kind of computer glitch and then posting on Yammer our Company Forum to make sure everyone knew there was a problem.

Do some get split up yes. Is this deliberate no.

[briancarr]

I have now travelled twice under the new regime. Ryanair have really shot themselves in the foot with this policy.
Because people no longer sit together, although generally they arrive at the plane door to take their seats together, the extra confusion of sitting apart.putting their hand baggage in three or four places, and taking up different seats ie. Row 7 A, Row12 B, Row 22E, Row 19F, instead of Row 12, ABCD. means that the boarding process takes twice as long as before, that’s before Mum need to move to reassure junior that he is OK on his own, and Dad is not sure if Joe has his correct luggage, and where it is .
Staff are disgusted by the stress this puts on them, but even if they have told their bosses, I’m sure it doesn’t get passed on, by all accounts, those on my plane said that it doubles the hassle for everybody.
I notice that on my flights, BRS to ACE flight times have been extended by about 20 mins, presumably to allow the little irish eejit to claim he is still arriving ‘on time’. The journey BRS ACE we were told would take 3hrs 40mins when on board, it scheduled for 4hrs 10m. and took 4hrs. so we got the fanfare !! Are they adding time to the scheduled flight time to take care of this new anomaly?
Why cannot they just run an honest business ? It seems to elude them.
I also notice that the staff speak worse and worse english , so that on my flight announcements were almost inaudible and not understandable at any time.
I would pay a fair fare, why do we have to be subjected to all this irish bullshit.

[handbag]

FDOS_UK

I have been thinking about your comments and how opposed they are to every action I ever take onboard ensuring that everyone is sat together, if it does not happen automatically.

A further example is that staff passengers are fully aware that if there are any seating problems, they will be moved to accommodate full fare. This could either be something like a defective IFE or split groups. This is not an unusual occurence.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Evidence from my colleagues and myself booking is that in many instances Ryanair now seem to split people up with middle seats and allocate apart, even though they could easily sit people together (we can see from the seat maps of the available seats). Easyjet seem to back fill a plane as people check in online from T-30 days – leaving a few seats to allocate on cheapest fares at back – or upfront seating at front with a higher margin (or those checking in very late get the upfront seating with the Speedy Boarding / baggage guarantee element). But people will almost always be sat together.

So yes – Ryanair do seem to be trying to exploit people to pre-pay in advance and cause aggravation where none is necessary.

[briancarr]

Lies, Lies, Lies.
Back to bad old Ryanair.
Their argument for not issuing seats together, to await other ´premium ´customers is a lie.
I have recently been allocated seats apart, and both of us had spare seats in our row.
This policy makes boarding much more difficult,and time consuming just ask the harassed ryanair staff.

People arrive together at aircraft door, and instead of sitting in 11 ABC, have to split into 3 different rows, with 3 different placing of onboard bags. surprisingly this takes three times longer, plus extra time when the B and C customers arrive ahead of the A customers, when you get the shuffle. This is an idiotic policy, why don´t the little eejits in charge realise this.

Could this be why they are altering scheduled arrival times to cover up this delay. Recent BRS-ACE flight was scheduled 20 mins longer than the normal 4hrs. usually an achieved flying time of around 3.5hrs, indeed the captain said a 3hr 40m flight, but delayed boarding process made us late leaving the stand, and wonder of wonders, we got the fanfare as they arrived on ´ficticous´time.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=816421]Evidence from my colleagues and myself booking is that in many instances Ryanair now seem to split people up with middle seats and allocate apart, even though they could easily sit people together (we can see from the seat maps of the available seats). Easyjet seem to back fill a plane as people check in online from T-30 days – leaving a few seats to allocate on cheapest fares at back – or upfront seating at front with a higher margin (or those checking in very late get the upfront seating with the Speedy Boarding / baggage guarantee element). But people will almost always be sat together.

So yes – Ryanair do seem to be trying to exploit people to pre-pay in advance and cause aggravation where none is necessary.

[/quote]

I don’t doubt what you say Tim. But I don’t think it is a change in policy, more likely that Ryanair have implemented ‘better’ software that is more effective at achieving their monetisation of this anciliary income stream or simply have started to implement the policy more widely.

Now to the hysterical ranting of some on the thread, do they realise that Ryanair used to show a charge of £5 for online check in, yes you used your own paper and toner and paid for the privilege. This was clearly nothing more than gouging an extra income stream (or reducing the headline cost for advertising purposes) and was completely unjustifiable, as everyone was going to have to check in for their flight and thus could not choose to avoid the fee.

The way I look at it is that you arrive at an ‘all in’ price for a flight and it is the headline price that is important. If travelling Ryanair, I inevitably choose to allocate a seat and pay for priority boarding. I’ll be travelling with hand luggage and so priority boarding makes that on of the 90 cases in the overhead bins and the seat will be near the front, so I can get off quickly and away.

If I was travelling with my wife, for leisure, I’d also reserve seats together.

At the end of the day, the locos give you the choice about what to bundle and the headline price (including the seat fee) is what’s important.

No airline will ultimately guarantee you sit together, but at least with the locos, you can book seats together and increase the probability to a very high level.

To go back to the BA example, I have seen cabin crew trying to re-seat passengers, so a couple can sit together and have got a very frosty pushback from people who had paid for their seat and were not impressed when people who had not wanted them to give up an aisle in exchange for a middle seat some rows back.

If people really object to Ryanair’s business model, then they should boycott the airline and if enough people do that, the policy will be changed (as it will, if it starts to cause noticeable delays and knock on effects, as these will drive a horse and cart through the business model).

Ryanair is not my favourite airline, I’ll take easy and Norwegian in preference everytime, but the self entitled ranting of some posters is ridiculous – if you want to sit together, spend a tenner!

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=816231]FDOS_UK

I am not disagreeing that Exec Card holders get a priority. As far as I am aware this is the situation with most major Airlines. This still normally leaves enough seats on a longhaul flight, that the majority of pax will be allocated a seat together. Cant comment personally on Shorthaul, but

have friends who I have asked and they laughed when I told the you believed this to be true

. All were appalled at what Ryanair, (if true) is supposed to be doing. This is not fiction , but fact that I see this every time I go to work.

If every can choose their seat by 24hrs before, as the flights are busier, then it is logical, that some will be spit up. what people are complaining about is being split up , when there are empty seats next to some of them and then being told they cannot move to her companion.

There is a thread on Moneysaving expert.com, where people have physically printed their boarding cards. One of them is showing 15 people in a group all who have been allocated centre seats. There are also lots saying that they have been told by Crew that they cannot move. I have never seen this on BA and it is not a policy. We actively encouraged people being sat together. Why would we not??? This is a fact.

There will always be systems in place to try and attract the frequent travellers and others to try and make more money on flights. BA are up for doing this in many ways, I agree. Deliberately splitting people up is not one of them.

I cannot be sure if Ryanair is deliberately doing this, as they say not. The pax that travel with them seem to think they are.

If I had a situation whereby there was a party of 15 all sat allocated in single, centre seats and there was free seats next to most of them. The first thing I would be doing is going through the pax list and seeing who I could move, then writing a report to say there is some kind of computer glitch and then posting on Yammer our Company Forum to make sure everyone knew there was a problem.

Do some get split up yes. Is this deliberate no.

[/quote]

Let me just remind you of what another poster write recently. A number of people who post here have contacts at management or executive level in airlines and do hear things that are not general knowledge; furthermore, some FFs (not me, but I have colleagues who are GGL) are invited to sessions with BA senior management and are given information sub rosa – thus my awareness of theoretical seating has come from multiple sources and once again demonstrates how little crew sometimes know about their own company policies (though, as I wrote before, it’s not their fault if they are not informed, so I’m not having a dig).

I note your comments about “a party of 15 all sat allocated in single, centre seats” – you are right that there would be a computer problem on BA (unless these were the only seats available when the group booked), since 10 or more Y pax in a party can book as a group and one of the benefits is that BA will actively try to seat them together – this is published policy.

Ryanair, however, does not have this policy – instead groups considering booking are offered a personalised quote and a heavy discount (up to 50% off) from reserved seating – if the group does not choose reserved seating, they get what they get, so you cannot compare BA and Ryanair in this respect. If a group chooses not to pay a heavily reduced fee (might be as little as a couple of quid each), they have no complaints if they are not seated together – whatever one thinks of Ryanair, they are clear and upfront on such matters.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=816616]Lies, Lies, Lies.
Back to bad old Ryanair.
Their argument for not issuing seats together, to await other ´premium ´customers is a lie.
I have recently been allocated seats apart, and both of us had spare seats in our row.
This policy makes boarding much more difficult,and time consuming just ask the harassed ryanair staff.

People arrive together at aircraft door, and instead of sitting in 11 ABC, have to split into 3 different rows, with 3 different placing of onboard bags. surprisingly this takes three times longer, plus extra time when the B and C customers arrive ahead of the A customers, when you get the shuffle. This is an idiotic policy, why don´t the little eejits in charge realise this.

Could this be why they are altering scheduled arrival times to cover up this delay. Recent BRS-ACE flight was scheduled 20 mins longer than the normal 4hrs. usually an achieved flying time of around 3.5hrs, indeed the captain said a 3hr 40m flight, but delayed boarding process made us late leaving the stand, and wonder of wonders, we got the fanfare as they arrived on ´ficticous´time.

[/quote]

If you want to sit together, pay for it. Or don’t fly Ryanair.

Why shouldn’t a business hold the more attractive seats and try to get a fee for them? BA often keeps a seat free next to me in a Y exit row (that I get for free, whilst many others pay £15 or more for the privilege) whilst others are crammed into a normal row of three – is it fair? Of course not, but the company is entitled to try and incentivise people to re-book by offering small ( but appreciated) gestures when it suits them.

Other people, worth more to BA than my relatively small spend, get even better gestures and as much as I’d like those, I have no complaint – I’m not that important to BA and you are certainly not important to Ryanair – with 120 million passengers choosing them every year, no-one really is – accept that and you can make Ryanair work for you (though I’d rather travel on another airline, when possible).

[AlanOrton1]

I don’t think anyone or indeed the purpose of the original post, is talking about boycotting Ryanair. Indeed it is also not about the merits or otherwise of paying for reserved seating.

It is highlighting the apparent differences between their old seating policy versus the current one that many have experienced in recent weeks / months, re: allocating of seats for those that have chosen not to pay to reserve them.

In years gone by Ryanair, Easyjet etc would for those choosing not to pay to reserve seats, more often than not allocate people on the same booking ref, seats together / next to each other.

Easyjet state that they still do this.
Ryanair on the other hand are actively not doing this.

I would venture, regardless of the verbiage Ryanair or their apologists choose to use, their policy (or the way they choose to monetize ancillary income) has changed / is noticeably different than before.

[MartynSinclair]

Is it not just a case of:

** one airline gives a free seat choice at check in

whilst the other

**allocates a seat of the airlines choice at check in

As long as the passengers know the rules in advance, I don’t see an issue….

A bit like plastic bags at the supermarket. If you need/require/want one – you need to pay …

[Author]

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