[Andrew66]

Agree with Marcus 100 % , I have never flown with Ruinair and never will , and from the more I hear and get to know I’m even more determined never to use them . Their standard of operation has no appeal to me , I strongly dislike ther mentality and ther boss/chief/ CEO behaves in an incredibly immature way considering his status , I also believe that if you don’t consider your customers to be important and offer them a poor service you will eventually lose them
I also think people should avoid supporting businesses that abdicate their responsibilities and consider customers an inconvenience in the way of how they want to run their business .
Of course it’s a personal choice and some people like them , but I won’t support a business that actively looks to undermine and treat its employees in an unfair way and thinks that customers only care about price/cost .

[FormerlyDoS]

Andrew66 – 21/08/2013 23:40 GMT

Just out of interest, how do you feel about an airline that leaves its passengers in an airport overnight, because the cabin crew ran out of hours and it could not find any hotel accommodation?

Clue, it ain’t Ryanair.

BTW, I seriously dislike Ryanair as a company and will fly anyone else when there is an option, but at least they have a coherent strategy and operate to it, consistently.

[canucklad]

Hi Marcus….

Your comment about Fr not being a LCC reminded me that probably the most expensive flight per mile flown was with FRightenscare….

My company needed to get me to Londonderry quickly….flight time from PIK apx 20 minutes, if not less….can’t remember the exact amount, but I’m sure it wasn’t that far off the £400 mark return !….Oh and that didn’t include luggage LOL

But as I’ve said many times before on this forum, play them at their own game; keep an eye out for cheap deals and AbFRacadabFRa…….

I can have a weekend away in Gdansk for less money overall than a Saturday in Auld Reekie…..and you get the added bonus if you fly from PIK of feeling as if you’ve been raised in an old Etonian family ! : ))

[Andrew66]

They have a very clear strategy , and are excellent at delivering it and it makes them very successful too and I agree it probably wouldn’t work or be as ” successful ” if they didn’t operate in the way they do , but they in my view make no attempt at wanting to accept that a customer is important , they just see them as a way of extracting as much money as they can for little return . The extra ancillary charges are aimed at catching people out , they represent being more a fine or punishment rather than being a relative fee for something you wish to purchase , in comparison EJ ( I can’t remember exactly ) make more profit or take more income from ancillary charges , and as they are smaller means that customers wish to purchase or enhance their service , they don’t have an image problem like ryanair in charging for everything , yet they do charge for everything !! They aim to be on the customers side and I feel more innovative and creative at offering a service than ryanair who have a attitude of setting out to unfairly treat its employees and customers to extract as much profit .

I understand your point about the other airline , and all airlines suffer this sort of problem from time to time , and years ago I was stranded for a while due to technicalities ! Which covers a host of reasons/excuses when they really do know the problem but don’t want to admit it , or minimise their duty of care to passengers , I find that in these situations the staff on the ground want to try and help as they can see the reality of the situation , while the suits and powers that be sitting far away from the problem don’t try hard enough to provide the level of service customers expect .
I would feel very unhappy with that airline if I was in that situation but I know that they do not actively set out to for this to happen , although you would also expect to see the problem solved as effectively as possible rather than being hung out to dry .

[BigDog.]

Slightly off topic but O’Leary missed a opportunity here – FlyScoot the Singapore Based Loco now offers an upgrade to a quiet zone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10256535/Budget-Asian-airline-unveils-child-free-zones.html

[FormerlyDoS]

Andrew66 – 22/08/2013 08:44 GMT

Customers are important to Ryanair, but only at an aggregate level.

I think once one has grasped this, then their strategy is even clearer, as they bank on being the low cost provider to be able to tactically attract/gouge customers as necessary to grow the business. They succeed by exploiting their key functional superiorities) in process (simplicity and cost base) and their relative superiority, such as in dominating smaller airfields, generating anciliary revenues and having less restricting labour arrangements

What will be interesting is what happens when the company encounters a sustained period of flat revenues (or falling revenues.)

I’ve often thought that there could be a spectacular failure, but I’ve been thinking that since about 2002, so what do I know 🙂

Edited to add that I find easyJet’s development impressive and they have identified a niche where they seem to be able to operate profitably and with a high reputation. 10 yeasr ago, easyJet and Ryanair looked similar, these days there is a lot of clear water between the two.

[MarcusUK]

For the most leisure travellers, I am sure Ryanair flies to airports no one else does, or certainly off the Main European routes. This is easliy seen when you see documentary programs on TV and radio, where people have bought 2nd homes in Europe from the UK, and Ryanair or Easyjet now fly to some small local airport. Often it is stated that a boom in trips away and easy flights to these places have fed a property boom for 2nd homes.

They also reach in that country who would not normally travel hundreds of miles to an airport, or the National carrier is very expensive. I have also seen at STN, many relationships between people in different countries, being brought together, if you observe the arrivals areas!

This is their client base. Perhaps many are not interested or as well informed as we are on this forum, and we can also make our choice work better. Easyjet is a LCC, but does not have the bad press or reputation that Ryanair does?

In the Far East, i flew Air Asia when they had their Premium Economy seats, and with the new Lie flat seats. From Melbourne to KUL, it cost £500.
Scoot, we flew about 8 months ago PE down to Sydney from SIN, and it was very poor, but perhaps expectations as being from SQ were too high. Poor service, old noisy 777 aircraft, badly managed crew, awful food, and the cabin was allowed to fall into a filthy state with meal trays left on the floor, with cups etc. We would not fly them again.

Crew attitudes and the service is always influenced by how happy and secure the staff are, trained, looked after, teamwork, and not overworked. You have only to board a flight and you can see how the statements of Ryanair and the poor press of its travellers (eg charging wheelchair users extra for assistance) etc, is just the same with the crew.
I did fly them this year, but will not again after my experience, or this additional insight into its operations.

The way they treat their staff is totally disgraceful and appalling.
I hope the sacked Senior Pilot, takes them to an Employment Tribunal, where i am sure a Judge will make a better judgement on them.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ FormerlyDoS – 22/08/2013 12:32 GMT

You’re right on the money.

I too have wondered what might happen to Flyanscare should they, so to speak, hit some in-flight turbulence with a period of flat-lining (or even falling) revenues. The business model appears to be predicated largely upon rising revenues and cash reserves. That said, as has been revealed of late with most of FR’s flight deck and cabin crew working either on an agency basis or on zero-hours contracts, then they are all variable costs. Almost all of the ground handling at airports is third party. Just about the only thing that appears to be “fixed” is the cost of O’Blarney’s salary, the dividend payouts and the leasing costs or the repayments for their planes – can someone remind me whether FR lease or buy outright? Not knowing what proportion of their cost base is taken up with airframe financing, it is a moot point just how susceptible they would be to consumers turning their backs following an extended period of negative reporting in the meedjah.

[FormerlyDoS]

Yoiu might find the link below interesting, it doesn’t answer your question about aircraft costs directly, but it is a spotlight on the psyche of the company.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/investor/investor-relations-news

[TominScotland]

AnthonyDunn – to the best of my knoledge, Ryanair buy raher than lease their aircraft.
MarcusUK – you did not fly Air Asia (a direct comparitor with Ryanair) from MEL to KUL, it was Air AsiaX which is a separate company with a very different product to Air Asia’s short-haul operations. I also think that this idea that Ryanair only flies to remote airports is getting a bit dated – yes, there Charleroi, Beauvais, Hahn , Torp and Prestwick, all sold as xxx South/ North/ West etc but Ryanair also also now much more mainstream to airports such as Budapest, Gatwick, Manchester etc. Also, don’t forget that in Italy they are the lead carrier on domestic routes.

Ryanair have changed dramatically in their route networks over the years. I remember when they operated nine flights a day between STN and PIK – today, there are none and their range of holiday destinations is now massive, agains a major change in strategy. So I suspect any predictions of their impending demise are premature.

[FormerlyDoS]

Re FR aircraft acquisition, the link below may shed some light…

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/19/ryanair-places-huge-us15-6b-order-for-175-boeing-jets/

I have no idea of the proportion of owned/leased aircraft.

[Bath_VIP]

I recall from an O’Leary biography from a few years ago that he apparently said “We effing raped them!” referring to a deal with Boeing made some years. The CEO of Boeing was then asked what it was like to be raped by O’Leary.

Interestingly, the biography also mentioned the only moment of remorse that O’Leary has ever shown when he invited Boeing to gazump Airbus over an order. He is on record as regretting that action.

Also recall, Ryanair is in discussions with the Chinese over their Comac 919 design and no doubt seeking tasty prices.

Bottom line, Ryanair buy their aircraft and screw the manufacturers in the same way as they screw the airports, staff, passengers ….

Oh, let’s not forget the shareholders. I believe they only started paying dividends in the last year or two. before then they never paid dividends.

One thing you can’t accuse O’Leary of is being inconsistent unlike some airlines…

[FormerlyDoS]

“Bottom line, Ryanair buy their aircraft and screw the manufacturers in the same way as they screw the airports, staff, passengers ….”

They have a classic overcall cost leadership strategy, why would you expect any other behaviour, in free market? (Structure/conduct/performance theory.)

[Edski777]

Last night on Dutch television an item was broadcast following the earlier broadcast in the Netherlands and the recent C4 item.
In the Dutch newsshow the chairman of the Ryanair Pilot Association discussed the results of the questions on flight safety at Ryanair. The chairman, Evert van Zwol ( a Dutch KLM captain), showed the results of over 1000 pilots that gave answers to the questions.
The results indicate that there is a severe problem with the company culture towards flight safety. Pilots are discouraged to report incidents and the company culture is purely based on on-time performance in a very tight schedule.
Around 75% of the pilots is not employed by Ryanair and is highly dependend on hours flown to earn a living. Taking an aircraft out of service or delaying flights will cost the pilots money so they are prone to bending the rules.
Questions have been asked in the Dutch parliament and the Minister for Transport has responded that the practices will be investigated.

What becomes clear is that mr O’Leary is constantly reffering to the safety record. A way of looking back and from there predicting your future.
The Union, although not recognized as such by Ryanair, is looking forward as states that even the own Ryanair pilots foresee that the company culture and high pressure on pilots will ultimately lead to accidents. A number of Ryanair pilots and other aviation experts testified to that.

It looks like Ryanair is taking the gamble against the culture, processes and procedures that made air travel the safest way to travel.
Mr O’Leary does that in order to run the cheapest operator in Europe.
He sells it based on statistics, validated by a regulator that makes its judgement on the same statistics.
But I don’t care about history that much. I want to fly an airline that is open to continual improvement, learn from even the smallest mistakes or incidents, even if that is slightly more expensive.

After all, if you pay peanuts, all you get is monkeys. And a monkey is not what you want in command of an airplane. At least I don’t.

[MarcusUK]

Lots of very strong view on this subject. Not many that really go with the Ryanair attitude, or their actions in recent times. It be interesting if their customer base will take as much notice as us frequent travelers, with a choice, do.

Re Air Asia, the KUL LCT houses both Air Asia and Air Asia X. Ar Asia X is a franchise of and from The Group. the Chairman and board remain the same. Everything is integrated there.

Wikepedia:

“AirAsia X is the medium and long-haul operation of the brand AirAsia, which is Asia’s largest low-cost carrier. The franchise is able to keep costs down by using a common ticketing system, aircraft livery, employee uniforms, and management style. AirAsia X is also affiliated with Virgin Group and Air Canada.”

Air Asia X, has now the lie flat seats but previously a Premium Economy cabin. Having flown Air Asia a few months ago from an Island no other Airlines served into KUL, the space and service would match Air Asia X in their economy cabins.

Air Asia X, is still a low cost Airline, successful based in Asia, all appeared to have failed in Europe over many years, even their own services to Europe withdrawn.

[Author]

Posts