Question mark hangs over Monarch as Qatar Airways A320s arrive in London.

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This topic contains 59 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Tom Otley 11 Oct 2017
at 17:03
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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 63 total)

  • superchris
    Participant

    getting back on point, I too will be very sad to see them go. Only flew them twice, once when I was a child a (then) holiday of a lifetime with my Dad to Florida. LGW – MAN to Orlando with a refuel in Bangor Maine. My 12-year-old nose was pinned to the window in excitement for the entire flight. Mind you flight was delayed about 12 hours on the way back!

    Again a few years back with my young children to Menorca. Fabulous service, some of the best food Ive ever had on an aircraft (albeit paid for). Got home, realised my daughters baby seat was damaged (hadnt filled out a PI form but placed a call nonetheless). Seat was replaced like for like within about two days. They didnt even want pictures. Amazing customer service and probably why they were losing money.

    RIP Monarch you will be missed.


    AnthonyDunn
    Participant

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    Canucklad:

    I suggest that you reread my comments to see that you have ignored most of it and you have focussed on only one aspect. The rest of your comments about AB and AZ are a complete non-sequitur: they operate in the €-zone and are not/were not so heavily focused on particular parts of the Med. The point about Brex**it is that this had an immediate (and continuing) impact upon Sterling and upon Sterling’s trade-weighted value. As Monarch faced a 20% increase in its USD denominated costs owing to the suicide vote and then a 25% drop in the fares it could charge to the Balearics, these were very significant contributors to Monarch’s fate. Yes, Monarch had longer term problems which pre-dated June 2016 and the airline has been sold on, recapitalised and had to impose substantial staff wage cuts. But terrorism hitting their principal markets and the Brex**it induced fall in Sterling were the nails in the coffin.

    It is, alas, only too typical of Brextremist Quitlings such as PhilipHart to pooh-pooh anything and everything that contradicts their delusional fantasy vision of the sunlit uplands of Brexitannia in which they have only to wish upon an outcome for this to come about. We are, within quite short order, to have a thorough demonstration of where the kind of judgement practiced by PhilipHart will get us; he is determined that we jump over the cliff knowing neither how high is the cliff nor whether there is any water below. I think a worthy candidate for the Darwin Award. In a year of phenomenal competition from the Quitling UKIPTory party, that is no small achievement.

    Oh, and an extra £350M each and every week for the NHS anyone?


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    Come on guys, can we eliminate the political crap please? This is a business travel forum, not a soap box for polemic bollox.

    It’s obvious to any halfwit that the slump in the value of sterling was a contributory factor to the demise of Monarch, but far from the sole cause.

    2,100 are facing an uncertain future, let’s show some empathy for them.


    AnthonyDunn
    Participant

    FDOS_UK

    Well, we could if it was not for the point that politics, in the form of the Brex**it vote and its consequences was one, and a particularly abrupt one, contributory factor to Monarch’s demise. There are very clearly some for whom the making and reiterating of said point, is excruciatingly uncomfortable because it flags up the Panglossian fantasy world of the sunlit uplands of Brexitannia that they inhabit. And I will have no qualms, going forward, in pointing up this fantasy world as it impacts upon the future of UK civil aviation. Alas, there is an increasing tendency on the part of many Brextremists to try and smother critical opinion. Too bad that I am just not going to fall in line with this.

    Can you also remind me since when has politics not been at the heart of civil aviation (and just about every aspect of it) from ownership through safety regulation to working hours to aviation treaties to whether carriers are permitted protection from creditors whilst insolvent or to the building of third runways?

    And really FDOS, you pointing fingers about polemics… A bit rich!


    esselle
    Participant

    Oh good grief.
    Monarch failed to spot a fundamental shift in the market about 15 years ago and continued to offer a product that appealed to an ever shrinking audience.

    Their finances were shaky before certain core markets were closed down by terrorism, and then currency topped it all off.

    Blaming Brexit is simplistic frankly; they were probably not going to survive anyway.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I think Esselle states precisely the reason for Monarch’s demise. They failed to identify their specific market segment, trying to be a traditional family run operation and to be all things to all people.

    Very admirable and idealistic but sadly in these times, it doesn’t work.

    Other airlines survived the ‘challenges’ of impending Brexit, terrorism, temporary shifts in currency values, oil price fluctuations, and so on.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    esselle and capetonianm

    I agree what you say, but also there is an over supply of short haul seats and smaller companies may struggle as they do not have the economies of scale to scrape a margin.

    The way the TATL market is going, it could endup the same way.

    On the other hand, never let common sense and logic stand in the way of a good opportunity to blame the other side in your argument 😉


    AlanOrton1
    Participant

    We’ve all read comment on here we disagree with but the drivel about Brexit are close to taking the biscuit.

    Monarch was a weak airline in terms of its business model and fiscal performance. Regardless of industry there comes a time when the strong survive and the weak perish. Monarch’s time has sadly come and it certainly wasn’t the first time it was teetering on the brink.


    K1ngston
    Participant

    Just making a very bad situation worse…. With the UK Government obliged to repatriate the people stranded with the death of Monarch, are they not obligated to sort out this too or is that IATA???


    Alan
    Participant

    Looks like there will be 45 737-MAX8’s going cheap. Monarch were to start taking delivery of these from early 2018.


    FaroFlyer
    Participant

    Has anyone experience of claiming on their insurance for this sort of situation?

    I use Amex Platinum card insurance and they are telling me that I cannot claim on the travel insurance policy for any additional costs incurred. They tell me that this is a retail claim and I can only claim as a failed retail transaction. To make it more interesting they are insisting that I prove how much of my RT ticket was outbound FAO > BHX and how much was inbound BHX > FAO. My view is that, if it is a retail claim, then the retailer, Monarch, failed to fulfil the agreement to get me both ways. It is a bit like buying a suit from BHS just before it failed, and finding a major flaw in the jacket. Would they argue that the trousers are OK, so only pay half?

    I also have an RT for December which will not be usable.

    Any help would be appreciated.


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    Interesting piece in The Sunday Times today

    Revealed: Monarch owner’s secret deal with Boeing
    Vulture fund propped up airline through offshore transaction with planes giant

    “This time last year, when the CAA threatened to withdraw Monarch’s tour licence, the airline narrowly avoided collapse by orchestrating the £165m bailout, widely thought to have been funded with new cash from Greybull…..the bulk of the money came from Boeing, released via a complex sale-and-leaseback financing deal related to the value of a fleet of 737 Max planes that Monarch had ordered.

    Amid a battle for orders between Boeing and Airbus, Monarch secured a cut-price deal for 30 new planes — which later rose to 45. The market value of the aircraft was greater than Monarch’s agreed price, so creating a paper profit.

    Greybull was able to persuade Boeing to release more than £100m of this trapped equity as cash, pumping it into the airline through Petrol Jersey.”


    Flightlevel
    Participant

    Oh good grief.
    Monarch failed to spot a fundamental shift in the market about 15 years ago and continued to offer a product that appealed to an ever shrinking audience.

    Their finances were shaky before certain core markets were closed down by terrorism, and then currency topped it all off.

    Blaming Brexit is simplistic frankly; they were probably not going to survive anyway.

    Perfect description of their demise. They had a good long haul service and gave it up to compete with the many LCCs when longhaul and feeder business plan is already well proven, so sad they made bad decisions.


    Swissdiver
    Participant

    The history of aviation reveals several exemples of collapsed airlines that had beed weakened by poor strategic decisions and could not cope with a certain adverse condition. In all the cases, the management claimed it was only because of that condition. Swissair is the first case that pops up in my head. 9/11 consequences were of course severe. Had the airline been properly managed (i.e. without unrealistic growth ambitions), it would still be flying today.

    The second issue airlines are facing nowadays is the EU absolutism when it comes to free markets. I am certainly for free markets in general. But when the citizens’ interest is at stake, pragmatism is necessary. This is true for agriculture for instance, but also for transportation. Forcing an island such as Cyprus to let its airline going down was absurd. In addition, enforcement is inconsistant. The UK will just apply the rule, while I doubt very much Italy will with Alitalia. Finally, as others mentioned, contrasting the EU approach with the US where airlines are using and abusing Chapter 11 worsens the situation.

    Monarch went down simply because it didn’t adapt to market changes and because of a price war that affected many players, including the two main ones. Had it been furthermore a non EU airline, it would be still flying…

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