Qantas to ground airline/lock out employees

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 70 total)

  • CXDiamond
    Participant

    Tête_de_cuvée as above, I’m well aware of how to run an airline and there’s more to it than maintaining morale and motivation. Joyce has taken a sensible decision and the only one that was left to him by trade unions holding the company and its passengers to ransom. There is now a possibility for matters to be sorted out and I would be confident that it will happen.

    As I said, Joyce is a perfectly adequate CEO, a cut above Walsh. Neither are the brightest buttons in the box but in relative terms their businesses are uncomplicated, there’s no great mystique to running an airline.

    I would suggest that for too long Qantas passengers have paid substantially over the odds for substandard services, a bit like those of an airline closer to home. Qantas has a great future if Joyce makes his changes, I’m not so sure about the other lot.


    FlyingChinaman
    Participant

    While many airlines are in vein finding ways to survive the future, the impact on the stranded passengers is NOW! Sad.

    We can expect to see more of these in the years to come!


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    This is a painful, but necessary, move on Joyce’s part.

    Morale is irrelevant in the short term. This is not some sort of “love-in”, it’s a business.

    Without this decisive action, the unions would have continued to exercise a cancerous grip on the airline.

    The employees will be locked out, sacked, and replaced/outsourced with employees on terms equivalent to their Asian counterparts. Alternatively, the Unions will negotiate and settle, saving some elements of their existing packages; the choice is stark, and Joyce holds all the cards.

    That’s what’s needed for costs – and eventually fares – to become competitive once again; for too long the Australian traveller has been massively overcharged on domestic routes despite considerable competition for Virgin Australia, and it will be good to see a shake up in this industry.

    Of course one has sympathy for those stranded, but a clear policy has been put in place to cover accommodation costs, and there are few routes which aren’t served by other – more cost competitive – carriers; that is rather the point that Joyce is making.

    There will be thousands of people only too happy to be employed by Qantas, even on new T&Cs, so I don’t see the union having a very strong long term position.

    It would have been possible for Walsh to make redundancies at BA; instead he chose the less dramatic route of a slow transition to Mixed Fleet.

    That slow transition can always be speeded up. The redundancy option remains.


    CXDiamond
    Participant

    Well said VintageKrug. I don’t think people on the ground really understand the business they work in or the world they live in sometimes. In business the hard decisions must be made and carried through. If there is to be a future for industries that compete in a global market place then their costs must come in to line even when that is painful.

    Walsh in my opinion was way too soft and lacked determination to achieve excellence in management. I hope Joyce has looked and learned from that and that he will do the right thing for Qantas, Australia and the travelling public of every nationality who use Qantas. There will be a little short term pain for travellers over this weekend but the gains will be worth it in the not too distant future.

    I agree for every Qantas employee made redundant or dismissed there will be ten to take their place so no fears on that score. Employees need to remember that companies are not run for their benefit but for the benefit of the people they serve. In this world it’s compete or die. Qantas is dying.


    Tete_de_cuvee
    Participant

    You have totally missed the point. By Joyce choosing to have one rule for himself by extensively feathering his own nest with significant pay / package increases in a time of global downturn he has unnecessarily alienated his workforce.

    His decision to enrich himself before delivering results demonstrates his bad leadership, evocative of the Chrysler and GM execs flying down to Washington in separate private jets to ask for a government bail out.

    The pilots et al are bright enough to understand the consequence of their actions, no-one likes to get peed on especially by their own CEO who has put himself beyond the necessary cost savings.

    His shortsighted approach will certainly not endear him to Fair Work Australia who will now step in to resolve the issue, No doubt they will notice how many outsourced operations to Asia and the sub-continent are now being repatriated.

    Saying Joyce holds all the cards is fatuous and demonstrates a total lack of knowledge of industrial relations within Australia. Best stick with things you appear to have experience of VK – BA sales, collecting miles, airport lounges and passing puerile opinion on how pneumatic the cabin crew are – as you appear clueless about business.

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/qantas-suspends-flights-indefinitely-20111029-1mpb0.html


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    The unions have too much of a grip on the airline and pay rates are too high, but surely it’s illegal to fire all the workers and employ new ones in their place?


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    It is *normally* illegal to fire and hire people into the same role if it’s the same employer.

    But if the Union action meant Qantas went bankrupt…..


    FlyingChinaman
    Participant

    I am not familiar with the Australian labour laws (or UK for that matter) but if the employer selects to terminate the services AND pay the FULL legal redundancy compensation to the sacked workers, surely there can not be a law stopping that!!!!!

    Since the employees can leave at will, it can not be a ONE-WAY street.

    If there is then good luck to all the western countries under that system!!


    LPPSKrisflyer
    Participant

    IIRC in the UK there is a provision in the midst of restructuring that allows a company to give twelve weeks notice of change in terms and conditions of working. Employees are advised that in the twelve week period they sign up to the change or the same period serves as their notice period. It’s rarely used but can be when necessary. I don’t know whether anything similar exists in Australia but I would be surprised if it does not.

    FWIW I think the stance taken by Joyce is the right one, it’s unfortunate he took it the day after being awarded bonuses of the scale he was but of course it’s dreamland to think that all employees are equal, they are not and if they don’t realise that maybe a reality check is in order. QF are one of the better carriers of the western world but their international services have been on borrowed time for too long. Their competition from South East Asia and the Gulf is strong and if they are to compete their costs need to come down. The number of Australians you find flying SQ, EK and the rest speaks volumes and it’s simple, value for money is better than on QF. Australia only has a population of 19M so there are less of them to go round. If QF cannot win in its own market on cost and quality they it will close and then where will these people who fail to see reality be?


    Hippocampus
    Participant

    This certainly a very dramatic move by Alan Joyce, not that such a decision would have been made by him alone.

    However, it should be remembered that this move by the airline hits passengers very very hard. At least during official strike action, there is a period of notice for passengers to rebook/reroute.

    Also, whilst Qantas does face competition from carriers with lower cost bases, it is true to say that some of the problems by Qantas are of its own making. Most notable is the fact that Qantas does not have a fuel efficient twin-engined aircraft in its fleet for long range routes (eg the 777) which has had an impact on its route network planning over the years.


    JohnPhelanAustralia
    Participant

    A couple of points of clarification for the non-Australians reading this:

    * the dispute is not primarily over money or pay rises – it’s over clauses the unions want inserted into all their agreements that gives them “job security” (i.e. they want legally-binding guarantees that they will not be made redundant at some future time)

    * Qantas staff are all paid more than staff doing the same jobs at Virgin Australia (the figures range from 10% to 25% more)

    * the job security guarantee is being sought by the unions to stop Qantas in the future employing and basing some staff offshore and paying them the normal local rate

    * Qantas international services have been losing a huge amount of money for years, so reform is needed

    * the main problem with international is that Qantas has a much higher cost base than its competitors (e.g. about 20% higher than Singapore Airlines) so its fares are often uncompetitive

    * bringing it to a head this way forces the government to intervene (which is quite possibly what Qantas has wanted to happen all along).


    Swissdiver
    Participant

    Thanks, John. This helps understanding the situation, especially for Europeans.

    More generally, I am not usually in favour of the use of the “atomic” weapon. That said, I am very curious of the outcome (yes, I know a lot of people are personally suffering consequences but still). This is making a case study…


    Binman62
    Participant

    Whatever the demands of the the TU the reaction of the the CEO has taken a “domestic” dispute, of which little was known outside of Australia and made it a global news story causing huge negative publicity and inconveniencing tens of thousands of passengers world wide. This is not the behaviour of a rationale man. if the BA dispute showed anything it was that discussion and a genuine desire to take staff with a company to bring about lasting and real change was the only way forward.
    what we have seen is the action of bullies whose lives hopes dreams and desires are simply not affected by mass unempployment, recession and change. They are the faceless unaccountable bankers and greedy board members of firms wholly out of touch with both customers and staff. It is sadly a growing problem around the world and represents what was once aptly called the ” unacceptable face of capitalism”


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    Some background from the Australian media: –

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/skys-the-limit-for-demanding-qantas-workers/story-e6frg6zo-1226120744492

    It seems Qantas employees have a cushy life with excellent pay and conditions, yet still they want more even though the long haul business has costs 24% higher and loses $200 million a year.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    It’s entirely rational (no “e”). A carefully planned bluff which completely slants the playing field in favour of Qantas’ management.

    Negative publicity, Poppycock!! There’s no such thing as negative publicity.

    What we are seeing is the action of Union bullies whose lives simply aren’t affected by mass unemployment, recession and change.

    They are the faceless unaccountable Branch Secretaries and greedy Union Reps wholly out of touch with both the market and real world of commerce.

    The rest is just Guardian-reading drivel.

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