[Anonymous]

[MarcusUK]

I see a couple of the Airlines have started discounting premium fares. for med / long haul (BA / TG)

I am sure we all have seen & felt, that there was a concerted effort for them all Not to discount into 2010 long hauls. Certainly fares from the UK to Asia & Australia have been exceptionally high, & almost double the fares available for travel Sept-Dec 09, (SQ LHR-SYD £1,950, now £3,600+).
CX, QF, EY, EK all had similar fares less than £2,000.
This regardless of the seasonal adjustments…

Many have been removing flights, & taking out seats & changing Aircraft to less capacity say 747’s to 777’s.

Does this mean they are still not filling their seats…so discounting has been brought in again?
This will leave others bound to follow, or bookings will go to those that do…seems like the stance has been broken…
Interesting…

[Senator]

Mark,

This could perhaps be local market driven. I have been on 3 return long-haul flights between Dec 27 and Jan 31:

ZRH-JFK with LX on Dec 27 and Jan 15 – filled to the last seat in all classes, on the outbound I scored an upgrade to First. On the return business and first were sold out, with a few econ seats available.

CPH-BKK with SK on Jan 16 and Jan 20 – filled to the last seat with paying passangers in business, some open seats in economy coming back

VIE-DEL with OS on Jan 24 and Jan 31 – light load outbound, packed to the rim coming back

So my experience is high load factors, and talking to SK purser bookings looked good through winter timetable

However, fares have been stellar. ARN-JFK was €1400 return via ZRH, ARN-TPE via CPH/BKK on SK/TG was €2000 and ARN-DEL return with OS “Winterspecial” 15% off was around €1500. ARN does not have a major premium market so you can always score decent fares.

[PaulJennings]

Looks like some airlines are starting to break ranks.

Maybe I’m being difficult to please but the sale fares seen so far don’t seem that great. The BA premium sale is underwhelming, and even Thai’s fares between LHR and BKK seem ok rather than great. They are charging roughly £2.5k in first and £1.5k in business. Firstly, an admittedly quick search failed to find those fares, which suggests at least that they are not available every day. Secondly, just going on seat stats and reviews, their first class seems close to a modern business class while their business class seems to be inconsistent at best. I should say upfront that I’ve never flown Thai, so I’m wiling to be corrected. As a point of comparsion, Eva seem to be offering similar if better fares for similar products on the same route out of London..

[Senator]

MichelAngelo,

I have been on Thai in Business on the A346 and B744. The seats reminded me of the MAS seats and seem typcial for the lie-flat seat offered by many airlines. The F&B was very good, and staff brilliant.

I did one sector from BKK to SIN in First on the A346, and I found the seat very good. Reminds me a bit of the AF First Class. I would rank it above current BA and LH seats, par with AF but behind the new LX seat.

However, TG’s Ground Experience in BKK is supposed to be brilliant. I did not have a chance to experience this, but reviews are very good.

[VintageKrug]

I don’t see massive discounting on BA.

The Sale fares are good for certain destinations, such as Club World for £749 rtn to Sharm El Sheikh in Egypt, but fares are holding up remarkably well, even within the context of a sale.

Sydney return for £2799 in Club World and £4299 in First are not bargain basement, but in line with trending increase on these routes as capacity reduces, the oil price rises and Gordon Brown’s APD tax doubles year on year.

This will enable BA to maintain margin.

BA holds a Sale every January, so this is nothing new.

http://www.ba.com/sale

Thai’s 50% off is an unprecedented sale.

[Senator]

Dear VK,

Just wanted to confirm; you are saying that TG will not offfer First as they change their fleet? This would surprise me considering their history and market position. Has this been confirmed through news channels?

[VintageKrug]

Oops! An error there, I meant TK (Turkish) not TG (Thai).

As far as I am aware Thai will continue to offer F and have edited my post accordingly.

[Lin–ny]

Hi, VintageKrug
Do you know if BA going to do the 50% off miles reward again this year?
I had a very good deal last year, my friend and I went Club Class to Toronto for only 50,000 miles + tax.

[VintageKrug]

I don’t know for certain, but given firmer sales and reduced capacity, I would say it is unlikely.

According to stats, Club World sales actually rose in December, despite all the negative publicity around the potential strike.

That really was a one in a decade sale – you can however replicate its effect if you are UK based and travelling as a couple by earning a 2for1 voucher with a BA Amex Card.

http://www.americanexpress.com/BA

[Senator]

Thanks VK…

I understood that the First on TK was “an accident” from the B773ER leases from Jet Airways.. I have mixed feelings about TK; good onboard F&B, but the rest…. I am not sure…

Back to the topic of Premium cabin fares… I am currently able to get flex rates to NYC, BKK for around €1500 return from ARN. Over the holiday period, there were many offers in this range. SK (a bit of a surprise) is leading the pricing to Asia using TG afor feeders. I went to TPE via CPH/BKK earlier as posted, and I am scheduled for Kuala Lumpur in March. I suspect SK will be the cheapest option in combination with SK.

I tend to find good deals from LHR at times with other carriers. Lufty has a sale on for Easter with JNB from LHR at £1400 which is a bargin. I am booked on BA from ARN for around £2300 none-flex… I may suggest to my boss to purchase BA CE return for £300 and take the LH option from LHR. We can do a lot with £700, and I can handle the extra 5 hours in each direction for a week-long trip.

[cityprofessional]

Back on topic. I don’t think there is any breaking of ranks. As VK and others have said, the BA fare sale is a regular event, and the discounts are not out of the ordinary. The TG fare is not unprecedented, not a sale fare, and is available almost every day (and has been over the last 12 months), albeit in a limited release manner – you need to seek out one of lesser known Thai’s consolidators (none of which are “well known” ones like Trailfinders or Expedia, say). If you do a search on Flyertalk or sqtalk, you will see mention of several consolidators who had plenty of availability on those TG fares over the peak Xmas season

What *would* be unprecedented is last year’s tit-for-tat CX/SQ/BA/EK limited period discounting to SEAsia/Australia… It started in March 2009 and continued until about June. BA/QF did a weekend premium fare sale, then SQ responded the following week, then CX, then EK etc. The EK F Suite fare I got to SIN for GBP1600 was pretty damn outstanding IMHO. Still waiting fo THAT fare sale to begin…

[twistgrip]

Must admit that I have found that the more “back of the bus” fares are discounted the more the “turn left” fares are increased (or discounts removed). Used to be able to get great deals on RTW fares which suited me greatly and were used 4 to 5 times a year but since 2008 the effective prices on Business/First have gone up by 200%. Paying 4 or 5 times Economy I can accept but 20 times – that is taking the !!!!!

[MarcusUK]

Thanks all for yr responses…
Time will tell in the coming weeks if other Airlines do start to discount.

The TG fare seems more aimed at tourist rather than Business travellers, with the internal flight also…It is not much of a discount, but off the full fare. Many of their Oceania flights have few Business travellers on these days.

Airlines have realised that the new market for Premium travel at this moment in time, is those Non Business travellers that travel regularly, or holiday, but are willing to pay more to travel premium. Hence also the rapid & now common Strategy of Airlines to develop or install Premium Economy cabins.
Certainly SQ down to Sydney have very few business passengers, compared to self- paying personal journey passengers in the last yr.

TG’s C class is dated & faded. I travelled 1st LHR-BKK-AKL a few years ago when the F cabin was being introduced. (This has now been discontinued so no 1st down to Oceania anymore!). The ground service at BKK & spa, private lounges, really was excellent, but to limited destinations for me now. Colleagues & friends, have all had similar experiences recently, & don’t recommend Thai or wish to travel with them…

I would take SQ, EY, or EK Business cabins rather than Thai’s 1st as i think its quite comparable, but as also reported , there is a general move to lessen 1st class capacity also (Qantas TG…)
The recent review of TG in BT under “Tried & tested”, really does find frayed broken seats, though the F & B remain a high standard, as the service, from the Crews, reflected on all Asian carriers I am sure we would all agree. They had one A346 into London but seem to have replaced this with an old 747 again.

Gone also are the days when you could buy from say BKK or KUL down to Sydney at the local market rate, & seperate your journey up. The £ value has slipped against most currencies by up to 45%! It no longer pays.
SQ in July had fares for £399 LHR – SYD return, £1,900 Business (which i managed to get for Sept-Nov 09 on the A380’s), basically as they needed an urgent cash injection. Bit of a difference to the current £3500+ mark.
Perhaps these are the Airlines that need the cash up front now?

[thebigseats]

Interesting thread, although I don’t necessarily agree with all of the observations here, not surprisingly!
For me the PE seats now seen more & more on many airlines are aimed fairly and squarely at business travellers when their budgets do not extend to Business of First.
TG have just as competitive a business product as many airlines (LH, old LX, BR, QR etc etc) across to BKK. Seats, F&B and service or on a par or better on TG IME. The midlle-east carriers require a stop en-route, which is both tedious and time-consuming so, IMHO is hardly a fair comparison.
I have travelled on approx. 20 sectors on TG in Business or First this year and have yet to see a (materially – if you’ll excuse the pun!) frayed/worn out seat. I will be travelling to SYD this year on TG First (amongst other sectors) and genuinely look forward to it. Indeed, First capacity has increased on this route as SYD is back to First service on TG this year.
Clearly, many airlines will look at any way to maximise cash income in these difficult times. Bargains for premium travellers will continue to ensue….

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