[Chutzpahflyer]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is seat power. Several airlines provide power at the seat in PE but not in Y. That, plus the additional legroom, means the ability to work or watch a film of personal choice on a laptop, whereas in Y there isn’t the room to open a “proper” laptop (as opposed to a tablet) and power runs out after a few hours. For me, that makes it worth the extra price (and I refuse to pay for business which is extortionately priced – except for the Gulfies).

[nmtraveller]

I think it is a bit silly for people to expect a watered down business class. If that was the case, the risk would be for the airlines to see customers to downgrade from business to premium economy!
Therefore to generate additional revenues, premium economy will have to remain an improved economy class and not much better than that. And a pricing not too distant from economy in order to motivate eco pax to treat themselves and pay for premium eco.
Now it’s down to each to see how they value the small upside:
– the additional leg room can be obtained by paying for an economy exit row for example.
– the improved meal is all relative in my view as the quality remains low.
– the small cabin can be I think a selling point: small size means more quiet and as someone mentioned before potentially more upgrade opportunities.
– last additional miles/TP is an important factor for some.

[RHMAngel]

I would concur with SeaLinkBF.

Virgin’s PE is a BIG step from both its Econ and BA’s Econ and PE (or WT+ I think its called…).

For me its not a size issue (petit person), its comfort issue on long haul, when I’m paying my way on leisure on long-haul rather than company.

The configuration, 2-3-2, width of seats and pitch…

When I did fly BA PE, I did feel it was a ‘money-making’ exercise. The mark-up has to justify there has to be more than extra pitch for me. Its slight upgrade on quality, food, attitude (cabin staff are less stressed than taking care of cattle-class at the back) that makes PE price justified.

Sadly I have never justified biz class for a long-haul *leisure trip*, but certainly have appreciated it, when its been paid for (albeit I have to be doing “business” almost certainly the same day I land or first thing the next day, if its an evening arrival). That said, easy-going managers have let me take vacation on the back of a biz trip and still allowed me to fly in/out on a biz class return ticket and not insisted on PE the leg of my vacation.

ps, no smart-arse comments please that space is wasted on petit people, we like creature comfort too, and PE/Biz is what sets it apart from Economy.

I’ve heard some very tall male friends complain they had a worse seat space in PE, than they did gambling with getting the Exit Row in Economy.

—> So PE, is clearly dependent on the airline and aircraft, so I always research if that extra money-markup is worth it.

—> IMHO, PE is a upgraded Econ, not a downgraded Biz class, so on that front, my expectations are managed.

I’ve got lucky, 3 times now – that some unwanted Biz class meals were offered to PE customers.

And I find Asian airlines still haven’t got to grips with offering PE, I wish they would.

[Perpetually^^^^^^Aloft]

Last summer, I had the misfortune of a US/AA CLT-FLL PY experience. The “front” was full, but hip squishing knee knocking Y was available and PY too. So, I decided to try PY and was terribly disappointed. I had no illusions of extra this or that, except for legroom. After boarding, I found my PY seat did not have any extra anything! Since the flight was full, I left it for a letter to US/AA at a later date. Their response to my letter (which contained a photocopy of my boarding pass and the receipt for the Y > PY upgrade charge) appears to be void of any acceptance of reality. US/AA claimed there was no PY on my CLT-FLL flight, even though I reminded them of the aircraft switch. I will not book the new American Airlines after this.

[AMcWhirter]

dodger10 – On which BA aircraft did you fly to Moscow ? I ask, because London-Moscow is a short-haul route and BA’s World Traveller Plus (it’s Y+ brand name) is available only long-haul.

Speedbird1994 – There are at least two carriers who have removed Y+ either completely or on selected routes.

Turkish Airlines is a good example of the latter (although the seating may still be installed on some of its aircraft) while Cathay Pacific removed Y+ from its ME routes.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/101241/cathay-to-axe-premium-economy-routes

SIA is gradually rolling out Y+ But who knows whether it will be rolled out to all its long-haul routes ?

RHMAngel – You didn’t say when you sampled Y+ with BA or on which aircraft. As others have stated, the new Y+ (offered on B787/A380) is much improved.

[rferguson]

With much fanfare and promotion by actress Gillian Anderson LHR-DME went from a shorthaul route to an all long haul route about five years ago when the Russian economy was going strong. It was switched from A320/767’s with shorthaul product to 1 x 747 and 2 x longhaul 767’s with longhaul product daily.

During to the financial crisis and sanctions in Russia the route was switched to 1 x 777 (four class) and 2 x shorthaul airbus about 18 months ago. The 777 service continued to sell F/J/W/Y and offer a longhaul service in the premium cabins.

Since OCT 15 it has reverted back to a ‘short haul’ route although it offers the midhaul/Club World catering in Club.

[sparkyflier]

Also it is worth pointing out that the BA Y+, in addition to the 380/787 fleets, can also be found on their 77Ws and many of their 777s, although not all of the latter.

For the record, I find it a very comfortable seat. The entertainment is very good, and in both upright, and reclined the seat is comfortable.

Where is falls behind some rivals, is that there is no snack service available between meals, which frankly on a flight such as SIN-LHR, is not good enough.

But generally the main benefit is more personal space, you are not fighting your own space unlike in Y.

[Travelmate]

Have flown AF Premium economy several times on dayflights and enjoyed it. Travelling from the Westcoast of Norway to the Middle East and Africa AF Premium economy often cost as little as 100 euros extra pr way (normally 150-250 euros), and when it includes KLM business to Amsterdam and loads of extra miles it is worth every penny.
It gives me the space I need (do not have to fight to rest my arm) and a quiet cabin.

[rferguson]

@ sparkflyer – agree with you regarding the mid flight snack on BA long range flights. The current standard is to offer the ‘mid flight snack box’ in W/M on long range day light flights. So for example BKK-LHR gets one LHR-BKK doesn’t. This applies to all the long range flights. As SIN/HKG etc are night flights both directions there are none loaded which is a little silly – they should be available for those still awake.

[sparkyflier]

rferguson thank you for that. I recall waking up on a SIN-LHR 13 hour flight at around the time that would have been Singapore breakfast. Nothing was available in the galley and the crew frankly did not care. I was so hungry that I then could not sleep the remaining 6 hours or so. That simply would not happen on SQ.

[rferguson]

That is poor attitude from the crew sparkflyer 🙁
On the long range night flights where the mid flight snack boxes aren’t loaded pot noodles and ‘tuck boxes’ are available from the galley although it seems these were not offered to you.

[AMcWhirter]

rferguson – Thanks for the background to the Moscow route.

I was referring to the present time. I know that until recently, presumably to entice wealthy Russians, BA was operating both long-haul and short-haul aircraft on this route.

[SuhByungDoh]

I considered BA PE for my regular trips to Seoul ex NCL/LHR. However as BA have reduced frequency to/from NCL it means a 4/ 5 hour wait at LHR ob & ib. Last Dec BA scheduled a Dreamliner on the route for summer but I have just heard that they have changed their minds again for at least part of the year ( Boeing Delivery Delays ? ).
As for the PE seats there may be more legroom but very very poor cushioning giving you a very sore a**e on a 10+ hours flight. They don’t take care of their passengers so I will stick with Emirates even with the Dubai layover I like to take. In the words of the BA Staff demo outside Sir Kieth Joseph’s home very early one morning WAKE UP BA, WAKE UP BA !!!

[jsn55]

Premium Economy is all about the leg room for me. I literally cannot fit into the pitch, my legs are too long. The rest of the stuff doesn’t matter and I can’t take a chance of losing an exit row seat at the last minute for some screwball airline reason. Fortunately, I only have to fly in economy if the flight’s under two hours. I’m just thrilled that PE is working and pray they never do away with the extra legroom.

[Bigfoot]

The last time I flew BA WTP was to Beijing with some clients with a company policy to fly BA – for £250 more I could have flown Emirates Business Class!!!!

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