Passport checks could stop cruise lines visiting UK ports

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This topic contains 56 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  nevereconomy 13 Nov 2014
at 14:40
.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 57 total)

  • Edski777
    Participant

    I’m reading this thread and can’t stop wondering why some people on this thread are so opposed against easier entrance to the UK for certain groups of people. I would love to see a more relaxed attitude towards businessmen (which they can achieve themselves by travelling in a premium cabin and get access to the express channels at immigration) or groups of tourists that pose no threat to the country. Others that travel regularly can use systems such as IRIS.

    So not all are equal. It is based on profiling and it works perfectly well.
    A lot of us on this forum use and benefit these facilities.

    The EU has within the Schengen treaty developed a rule especially mentioning cruiseship passengers. They are deemed an extremely low risk group on a vessel that has very strict controls on passenger movement. Adhering to these rules makes life so much more relaxed for these tourists while travelling while individual countries retain their rights for inspection of identity papers if circumstances dictate.

    You can read all about this at the following link: http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/06/st15/st15010.en06.pdf

    Read the pages 69 – 72 (based on the Schengen Borders Code (Annex VI).

    Applying this makes the UK more safe as valuable resources (read: personnel) are freed to chase illegal immigrants, possible terrorists and criminals. It also makes the UK more prosperous as more tourists means more spending in the UK. Why not go for the best of both worlds?

    Let’s leave the paranoia to our cousins across the big pond.


    AnthonyDunn
    Participant

    Interesting, I had not previously realised that both Iceland and Norway (non-EU) are both Schengen area members…

    With the current shenanigans over immigration levels, there is even less chance of a rational debate on border controls or of the Daily Getsmuchworse not attempting to drive the debate in an even more rabidly rightward direction.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Edski777 – I have no problem with a fast track process at immigration. This happens at many places worldwide.

    I believe there is a difference between that and a “relaxed attitude” which implies some lowering of standards.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    SimonS1 – “there is a difference between that and a “relaxed attitude” which implies some lowering of standards”

    Agree 100% Simon – look what happened when we lowered standards all those years ago.

    Our “cousins” across the pond may be paranoid, but they make no excpetions or relax the rules.


    DavidGordon10
    Participant

    “Others that travel regularly can use systems such as IRIS”. That would be the day.

    First, we are told that IRIS is being removed, and it has already disappeared from some entry points.

    Second, when my passport was stolen and a new one issued, my IRIS registration was removed. Why?


    Eastbourneguy
    Participant

    SimonS1 – all I am simply saying is why should you have to do this in the UK as part of a cruise and nowhere else in Europe, or in fact most places in the world?


    SimonS1
    Participant

    It depends which countries you are talking about.

    I thought we had already established that there is no special dispensation in Europe (normal Schengen rules apply) and I’m not aware the US treats cruise passengers any different to anyone arriving at their borders.

    So when you are talking about “most places in the world” can you be a bit more specific?


    Eastbourneguy
    Participant

    Hi Simon

    I have originated cruises in China that have visited Japan, Indonesia and Australiia for one

    UK, Europe, Dubai, South Africa, for another

    Italy, Greece, Egypt, Israel on another

    The only time on any of the stops a passport has had to be shown was Russia, and never at any intermediate stops.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    I’m not sure your information is up to date or accurate.

    I know for sure that in Dubai cruise passengers are not exempt from visas, as the regulations have just been changed to allow multiple entry visas to be issued to cruisers for the first time.

    Similarly entering the Schengen zone on a cruise does not remove the need fo a visa where a visa s normal required. In the UK the same applies, all passengers have to show their passports, that’s the whole point of this thread.

    In Australia the govt website indicates cruise passengers are subject to immigration checks in the usual way. http://www.immi.gov.au/sea/ships/entry-to-australia.htm

    In South Africa cruise passengers are normally required to show passports but not required to have a visa where one is not normally required.

    So I am still struggling to understand which countries bhave an immigration process that treats people differently because they arrive on a cruise.


    Edski777
    Participant

    Simon,

    A large number of countries have different rules than the UK for short (day) visits by passengers from cruise ships. It doesn’t mean there is no control over who enters a country or not.

    First of all there are two reasons that stand out for a slightly different attitude by the authorities: the profile of these passengers and the fact that these passengers come from a tightly controlled environment.

    Passengers on a cruiseship are typically people that are middle class, have booked long before they travel and have every (socio-economic)reason to return to their home country. The second factor is that in the background procedures are in place that enable authorities to pre-check all passengers. Every passenger that enters a ship is entered into their hotel system. Passengers are handed an identity card and are registered every time they disembark and embark.
    The captain of the ship, or in most cases their agent, will have to submit a passengerlist to the port authority before entering a port, normally 24 hours in advance. This allows the port authority, in cooperation with border control, to screen all passengers beforehand and even select those they want to interview in person for whatever reason.

    The next argument is that most governments, with the above in mind, regard tourism an important industry that brings in a lot of revenue. The cruiseship passenger is, except as a low risk, also seen as a relatively cash rich tourist. And what is good for business is good for the country!
    These people have very little time, normally less than 7 or 8 hours, so let’s give them as much time to shop and enjoy the local services as possible. On average these people spend someting like US$ 100 a day, each. And that is on top of what the cruiselines spend while in port.

    If the UK government has a different view, and they have, they may scare away cruiselines and miss out on this lucrative business. The group of countries that together form the Schengen area, almost all of the countries on the Atlantic Ocean, Mediterrenean, North and Baltic seas have come up with a solution to attract cruise tourism and develop this market by making access to these countries so much easier without compromising security. I referred to the rules they apply in an earlier post. Please read it, it takes a few minutes and you’ll probably get a better understanding of the rational behind all this.

    Other countries that I know of that have applied a similar set of rules are to be found in the Caribbean with their huge American cruise market.

    With regard to your remark about visas: for the Schengen area one visa is required to travel through all these countries. The UK is not part this arrangement, so visitors may need an additional visa. This would show up on any passengerlist.
    Under the Schengen agreements a cruiseship leaving to and re-entering from the UK is subject to passport control. Even if the ship has been away for less than a day. The decision of the UK government not to enter the Schengen area is from many points of view probably not the most intelligent move, but it is a reality.

    If cruiseship operators decide for operational reasons and passenger comfort to drop out of British ports it is the UK economy that suffers.
    Not exactly smart in these or any other times, but emotions are sometimes more powerful than common sense.

    People worry about that, because it provides for their bread and butter. And that is exactly why this thread was started.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Thank you Edski but I am quite conversant with the nature of a cruise, the socio economics of those travelling, how Schengen works, why cruisers spend money etc etc.

    You have however avoided my question which countries apply different visa or immigration rules to people arriving on cruises. In the case you give (Schengen) my understanding is that at your first point of entry into Schengen zone you need your passport and possibly a visa depending on your nationality. That applies whether you arrive by plane, boat, car etc.

    In Dubai there are also border controls when entering on a cruise. That means you need your passport and maybe a visa in advance (although effective last year you can get a Multi entry visa).

    So my question remains – I am interested in knowing which countries apply different immigration standards to people arriving on a cruise? (I believe Egypt may be one). “Lots of countries” isn’t really much help here.


    Edski777
    Participant

    I lived in the Caribbean for a while and on several islands, the Dutch Antilles for sure, a thorough passport check is standard when entering at the airport. Probably the same in the BVI.
    But entering for a day from a cruiseship will let you walk straight into the city centre. A totally different procedure from my perspective.

    Naturally this may be depending on your nationality and the status of a cruiseline as well. The tourist in the Caribbean is mainly US, Canadian and EU. I’m not sure about other nationalities.
    Rules that are being applied in other countries have been commented on by others.

    Actually I don’t give a damn about other countries and their visa rules. I’m interested in the UK and the UK economy. That lot in Westminster have found another way of hurting ourselves hiding their incompetence behind the most lame excuses. Our neighbors do collect the benefits though. Oops, that was what this thread was about originally.
    With a parliament like that, who needs an enemy


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    There is a big difference in passengers arriving in the BVI on a cruise and London.

    I cant understand why anyone would be happy with a relaxed border control in the UK for any reason. Havent we learned our lesson over the past 30 years or so.

    Our neighbours may get the some benefits, in our case we would end up giving the benefits……………


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Edski777 – people arriving in Dutch Antilles do not require a visa for stays of less than 48 hours whether they arrive by cruise or plane. So once again cruise passengers do not receive preferential treatment.

    As for the bit about “our neighbours do collect the benefits”, that is exactly what you have been unable to prove. So I’ll ask the question again, which of our neighbours gives preferential immigration treatment to people arriving on a cruise ship when compared to arriving by plane? That is what the thread was about, as you can clearly see from the title.


    Edski777
    Participant

    Being able to head straight into town without even seeing an immigration officer versus waiting for almost an hour on average at the airport and have your passport stamped resembles preferential treatment for me. Being able to hop on and of in most European countries because they have a treaty versus waiting in line for hours in the UK is for me preferential treatment.
    If you see it differently: Great. You’re entitled to your views and so am I to mine. (You may have a different view on that as well)
    This turns out to be a discussion about the discussion, let’s end it here.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 57 total)
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