[MartynSinclair]

There is only one news station (in the USA) that describes people who blow themselves up as “Homicide Bombers”. Most refer to them as “Suicide Bombers”, there is a difference.

Many years ago, I used to be involved with Paris and Farnborough airshows, where there was a very large amount of mixed events (albeit behind the scenes), between the warring Middle Eastern countries.

I hope that yesterdays event, will be a BIG and positive turning point for peace among ALL nations and people…

[Charles-P]

MartynSinclair – I too can confirm this cooperation between Middle East countries. Even such public enemies as Israel and Saudi Arabia meet on a regular basis to agree civil aviation issues. At the political level these meetings are inconceivable however in the real world they take place and are conducted by individuals who are friendly and professional with each other. Even military organisations from countries that many would think never speak hold meetings to agree items like airspace for exercises and provide advanced notice of missile launches.

I am a firm believer in the idea that business travel is a contributing factor toward peace. You don’t go to war with somebody you are selling things to in my view.

[MartynSinclair]

“I am a firm believer in the idea that business travel is a contributing factor toward peace.”

I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement, EXCEPT when the commodity being sold is ARMS…and WEAPONS.

You may not go to war with somebody you do business with, but you will go to war with someone else!!

[canucklad]

Ref: The BBC ( Sky-CNN-ITV)
There is another topic on the forum that focusses on an employer’s duty of care to its employees.
So, .put yourself into an editor’s shoes, at say Sky or the BBC . You would have a difficult decision to make,, you might possibly consultant your HR/legal teams for advice. After al that advice, ,you are then faced with, showing the cartoons that so outraged these intellectually weak individuals, who have demonstrated that they are nothing more than easily brainwashed killing machines for their sub-human criminals.

By publicly adopting the “ Je Suis Charlie” stance as an editor you are in danger of changing the unwritten rule of “Journalist” badge offering a degree of safety, to your field correspondents (especially in the Middle east) into a huge sign that says “Infidels “to those unbalanced ,poorly educated, lunatics who don’t have the moral fortitude, or conversational skill to debate their point of view rationally. And unfortunately, the increase in isolation of thought is created ,ironically, by the rise of internet u browsing and not social interaction with other sensible people., And, unfortunately the middle east has more than their fair share.

[Charles-P]

MartynSinclair – a difficult one I know.

I work in the defence industry and have done for all of my career since leaving the Services. In the past I have been at the ‘sharp’ end of the industry and have sold weapons and in my view the industry does very little to contribute to global conflict (some people I have met would throw rocks at each other if nothing else was to hand). In fact I do believe the industry is a contributing factor in guaranteeing peace in many parts of the world.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ Charles-P – 12/01/2015 13:19 GMT

And indeed article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations reads:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

So, the UN charter explicitly acknowledges the right of member nations to self-defence – and the means of that self-defence. That means arms sales.

[Charles-P]

AnthonyDunn – thank you for that.

I certainly believe in the right for any country toward self defence. As a former serviceman who has fought in conflicts I also have a lot of sympathy toward the 19 year old soldier on a street corner who has been told to “hold that ground”. My view is that if we are going to ask young men and women to defend us we have an obligation to provide them with the best primary and secondary equipment we can.

Clearly there are countries and organisations we should not be selling to and that is why we elect politicians – to make those collective informed decisions on our behalf.

It’s worth noting that Trooper Lee Rigby was killed with kitchen knives not a gun.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ Charles-P – 12/01/2015 15:28 GMT

As ex-MOD and having some direct personal involvement in promoting UK military equipment sales, it would be utterly hypocritical of me to point fingers at arms sales.

What fuels most low-level conflict, where civilians are on the receiving end, is not the kind of gear that UK plc sells to established militaries but inter alia the AK-47s and rocket propelled grenades flogged without regard by the Russians, Chinese and those who can copy them. And that is exactly what is happening right now in Syria, the Sudan, Somalia, Libya, the Democratic Republic of Congo et al.

And back to the OP. Let us hope that this kind of gear does not find its way onto our streets in the hands of pathological, homocidal, suicidal, religiously motivated nut-cases of whichever flavour seeking “martydom” (sic).

[SimonS1]

Indeed Anthony. How alliances change over time.

I seem to remember Mugabe who was hastened into power at Lancaster House by Thatcher and Carrington which in turn opened the door to the massacre of an estimated 25,000 people in Matabeleland by North Korean types. That’s about 1,800 deaths for everyone who died in Paris.

[canucklad]

Indeed, how “alliances” change. The cynic inside me has always wondered at what point in time the Mujahideen disappeared off our radar and the Taliban became the bogeyman?

IMO, it’s all an exercise in of hypocrisy. And as remember yesterday’s events and sentiments,lest we forget the following 2 words…… Exocet and Argentina.

Oh,and let’s not forget that ruthless civilian murdering terrorists have been rewarded in the past, by the west, and in particular the USA with the biggest prize of all….Statehood…. So it’s a bit rich ,for us in the west to apply double standards to the opposite side now.

[Author]

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