“Our primary concern is your safety”

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  • MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Should UK cabin crew and the airlines in general be strictly enforcing the correct wearing of face masks during a flight for the safety of ALL the passengers OR is it up to each passenger to decide …..(despite it being law and conscious some passengers may be exempt)… ? In the USA, passengers who refuse to wear face masks are being banned by some airlines from future travel.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-zante-flight-linked-to-covid-19-cases-had-no-social-distancing-says-passenger-12060304


    ontherunhome
    Participant

    I think that passengers, us the public need to be more aware. I think that there is wishful feeling Covid has gone away, and sadly younger people who are less at risk, seem the worst culprits. I also feel that though businesses say that customer is their primary concern, or whatever words they use, I do feel that in many cases it is going through the motions, as they want to not upset anyone, and loose business.

    I do think the US airlines policy whilst extreme, is clear. Sadly all those passengers and crew, now need to write of 2 weeks, and I hope no-one gets really sick.

    We all need to do our little bit, simple things, and we will overcome Covid, but selfish people will always be an issue. An if we need a sledgehammer to crack a nut so be it.


    flier74
    Participant

    The problem is that Cabin Crew can not enforce the wearing of masks or force passengers to socially distance. There are plenty of guidelines and ideas around, but there are no legal enforcements around to give Crews the rights to “Enforce or police” these rules.
    I love the way that other passengers pipe up claiming they felt unsafe or the crew did nothing when they come back from a holiday destination when the crew actually can’t physically force people to distance or wear masks, yet they rush to the media and sell their story claiming they “felt unsafe and violated” when indeed the crew has no power to make passengers wear a mask, but instead can ask people to comply, whether they do or or not is a different story, as I have witnessed plenty of time’s , both in the air and other places, where people
    feel like they don’t need to or think they are above the rest.
    That’s the public for you I guess.


    Alsacienne
    Participant

    Would it not be possible to pass a law giving similar rights to Air Navigation Orders that gives the Captain the right to demand enforcement, and if not, to divert and offload those who would not comply and then have the airline charge them for the cost of the diversion and/or blacklist them for life?

    If a divert was required, the other passengers could remain on board and thus not become subject to the quarantine regulations in force in this country of diversion …. or are we too weak to take on the big mouths who think that safety in the air does not apply to them?


    canucklad
    Participant

    Great question Martyn , and some interesting responses that highlight a few issues around the whole question of wearing masks …

    Firstly, I’ll not be on an aircraft until masks disappear , or at least the current paranoiac atmosphere abates

    Yet, talking to friends who have returned from holidays , they tell me that its easy to get round the mask wearing by simply indulging with the BOB offering

    These paranoiac people should really keep their yaps shut. Especially those who’ve CHOSEN to leave the UK for far away shores in an enclosed metal tube. Masks seem to have turned them into Covid warriors , wearing their shield of power , and in the process becoming as much an irritant as ex-smokers become to smokers.

    As far as legislation goes, I’d be extremely weary . Our civil freedoms have been absolutely shot to hell and it seems that no one is challenging the removal of our liberties. Shows just how fragile our democracy and our freedoms are !! New legislation in Scotland, has the potential to turn us into a society that wouldn’t look out of place in Gestapo run Germany .

    Going back to my first point, I won’t be on an aircraft because I’m willing to be compliant, so that we can get through this as soon as possible . Regardless of how badly our global governments have acted, remember the blame for all this lies elsewhere !

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    FaroFlyer
    Participant

    Flew BA to LHR last Thursday and back yesterday. BA crew were very professional and reminded everybody about the correct way to wear masks. Made it clear that masks can be removed while eating and drinking, but should be worn at all other times. On the return the CSM asked a lady behind me if she needed a new mask. When she replied that she had one he asked her to wear it, please.

    Masks are for protection of others, as well as the wearer. Saying it infringes rights is a bit like saying I have an STD but I’m not going to wear a condom, or refusing to wear eye protection in a factory, or a hard hat on a building site.

    Nobody has a “Right” to cause inconvenience, or harm, to others. The biggest problem that the World faces is the common belief that everybody has Rights, but nobody has Responsibilities.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    The problem is that Cabin Crew can not enforce the wearing of masks

    Why not – “our primary concern is your safety.”

    New legislation in Scotland, has the potential to turn us into a society that wouldn’t look out of place in Gestapo run Germany .

    Perhaps there is a more suitable analogy/comparison….

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    A primary responsibility of any airline is the safety of its passengers.
    This given any passenger that endangers the safety of any other person on that aircraft is breaching the airlines primary responsibility and should be dealt with as appropriate both by the airline and the relevant authority.
    It is proved well beyond any doubt that masks offer considerable protection to all and as such it absolutely astounds me that there are still otherwise intelligent people twittering on incessantly about personal freedoms,’liberties shot to hell’ and such.
    Question -does this lunatic fringe also refuse to wear a seat belt and if not why not – given that this is a far greater curtailment of personal freedom than is wearing a mask.

    I suspect that the requirement to wear a mask on the instruction of the airline is already enforceable by existing laws and regulations.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    fatbear
    Participant

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    A primary responsibility of any airline is the safety of its passengers.
    This given any passenger that endangers the safety of any other person on that aircraft is breaching the airlines primary responsibility and should be dealt with as appropriate both by the airline and the relevant authority.
    It is proved well beyond any doubt that masks offer considerable protection to all and as such it absolutely astounds me that there are still otherwise intelligent people twittering on incessantly about personal freedoms,’liberties shot to hell’ and such.
    Question -does this lunatic fringe also refuse to wear a seat belt and if not why not – given that this is a far greater curtailment of personal freedom than is wearing a mask.

    I suspect that the requirement to wear a mask on the instruction of the airline is already enforceable by existing laws and regulations.

    The trouble is that it doesn’t appear to be “proved well beyond any doubt that masks offer considerable protection”.

    Many of the articles I have read from people who appear to be experts use language such as minimal, minute, small etc protection, and the WHO were pressurised into changing their position despite the science not changing. So wearing a mask is either very slightly increasing the chances of not getting/giving the virus to/from someone, or an indication of respect for others.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    Difficult one.

    Practically it is hard to enforce anything at 35,000 feet. This is easy to say but how would you do it – hold people at gunpoint? No cabin crew will risk an escalation as that would also be risking safety.

    In the real world no airline will divert (with all the accompanying cost) even if it was practical. What do you do if over the Atlantic? Over central Africa etc etc.

    Would the police be interested – I doubt it. Police forces are already stretched and meeting a passenger who has not been wearing a mask is impractical even assuming a criminal offence has been committed.

    Bad behaviour by those involved but in practice hard to address and banning people is probably as good as it gets.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Fatbear wrote:
    ‘The trouble is that it doesn’t appear to be “proved well beyond any doubt that masks offer considerable protection”.

    I disagree believing that it is proved beyond any reasonable doubt to the vast majority of informed medical professionals and to vast majority of the rest of us that masks offer considerable protection and that your view on this is very much a minority one.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    Difficult one.

    Practically it is hard to enforce anything at 35,000 feet. This is easy to say but how would you do it – hold people at gunpoint? No cabin crew will risk an escalation as that would also be risking safety.

    In the real world no airline will divert (with all the accompanying cost) even if it was practical. What do you do if over the Atlantic? Over central Africa etc etc.

    Would the police be interested – I doubt it. Police forces are already stretched and meeting a passenger who has not been wearing a mask is impractical even assuming a criminal offence has been committed.

    Bad behaviour by those involved but in practice hard to address and banning people is probably as good as it gets.

    Having the miscreants arrested upon landing would solve any enforcement problem (and any ongoing problem) of this nature instantly I believe.
    Air Safety rules and regulations need continue to be enforceable and enforced.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Difficult one.

    Practically it is hard to enforce anything at 35,000 feet. This is easy to say but how would you do it – hold people at gunpoint? No cabin crew will risk an escalation as that would also be risking safety.

    In the real world no airline will divert (with all the accompanying cost) even if it was practical. What do you do if over the Atlantic? Over central Africa etc etc.

    Would the police be interested – I doubt it. Police forces are already stretched and meeting a passenger who has not been wearing a mask is impractical even assuming a criminal offence has been committed.

    Bad behaviour by those involved but in practice hard to address and banning people is probably as good as it gets.

    Having the miscreants arrested upon landing would solve any enforcement problem (and any ongoing problem) of this nature instantly I believe.
    Air Safety rules and regulations need continue to be enforceable and enforced.

    Agreed in principle, but in reality the Police in UK (for example) are not going to divert stretched resources to deal with this.


    fatbear
    Participant

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    I disagree over use of the word “considerable”.

    A lot of the recommendations are on the basis of it may reduce the spread of the virus so therefore it is a good thing to do. There is a lot of informed comment that wearing a mask does little to protect you, unless you are very close to an affected person for a lengthy period ie where social distancing is not possible, and then you need to be wearing a surgical mask rather than one from the pack of 50 sold in Boots. However, wearing a mask can prevent you passing the virus to someone else but there are a lot of conflicting studis on the circumstances where this is effective.

    Wearing a mask is not a panacea, and is just one of a number of potential actions to stop the spread of the virus. You are welcome to think that wearing a mask is making a big difference, but me wearing a mask in the supermarket won’t make a blind bit of difference as I make sure I don’t go near enough to anyone. However, I wear one out of respect to others and not wishing to have everyone staring at me……..

    Like many subjects, opinions on this are now treated as universal truths, and those who question get vilified.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    canucklad
    Participant

    Air Safety rules and regulations need continue to be enforceable and enforced.

    i argue it’s an air safety rule !!

    If it is, then why are we allowed to fly at all, especially to the US , India , France and other Hot Spots .
    masks have apparently a 3% increased effectiveness rate. Not travelling and bringing back the virus has a 100% protection rate

    Again, like everything its about a level headed common sense approach to risk assessment.
    otherwise why are stay serving food and drink on-board.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
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