[Workingmom]

When travelling over the years with first a baby and then a toddler and now even a 7 year old, I always get nasty glances from fellow passengers in business class. The truth is my daughter is an experienced traveller flying between Europe and Asia at least 6 times a year. I personally feel she is one of the best behaved passengers on the flight, treating the crew with respect. As a baby she slept for most of the flight, and now she entertains herself by reading, coloring, watching cartoons or by playing games.

On the other hand, many so called “businessmen” act horribly in business class. As some people have already commented, they don’t pay for their own tickets, so they take full advantage of the free bar service onboard. They get totally plastered, becoming loud and arrogant. They laugh with their fellow “businessmen” and stand in the aisles with no consideration to fellow passengers trying to sleep. They keep ringing the service button for more drinks and snacks and sometimes they even sexually harrass the cabin crew. Shouldn’t we ban these people from the business class??

Of course I have been on flights where parents don’t control their children at all, letting them run around terrorising everyone onboard. But just because some individuals don’t know how to behave, it is senseless to try to ban children from first and business class. With the same logic shouldn’t we try to ban children from economy class, or all public places while we are at it…

[SimonRowberry]

Workingmom,

Excellent post. Couldn’t agree with you more. It meshes with everything I’ve said above and on the “Fattest Traveller” thread – good to get a mother’s view on this issue too.

Simon

[LindsayW]

An interesting discussion. I have two children and next year being my wife’s 40th birthday, will be taking the whole family to Europe for 6 weeks. Fortunately I have been saving up my AA miles for a while, so hoping to access 3 award seats in J (my daughter will be 4) as well as buying my infant son (then 17 months) his “bassinet seat” (10% of J fare).

Now, my daughter has been a frequent flyer (within Australia) since 12 weeks old and loves being in an airport or on a plane.

We have always fed (breast or bottle) our children whilst taxiing, through take-off and into crusing altitude so that they have both slept for significant periods. Similar for descent – as soon as it starts, it’s time for a feed. This usually gets rid of the ear problems which cause some discomfort to them and fellow pax.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is our responsibility to manage our children and love showing them the plane (galley, out the window, ralking with the FA’s when not busy, walking up and down the aisle). But I know to respect others space and tranquility. During wake periods, use of our own toys etc (plus the airline children packs) has generally been sufficient to occupy them.

Others may use Fernergan or other medicinal needs, but we try to keep that to a minimum (but may have some in our carry-on just in case, having tested it prior to flying to see the childs’ reaction to the drug).

[MartynSinclair]

I bought my son up on being able to visit the flight deck and fly up front with me when ever he could. Those days are now long gone in the airline, but fortuantely not in corporate aviation.

[briansalter]

At risk of being branded racist, you should see the truly awful behaviour of kids from the GCC countries. The rule, rather than the exception, is for them to be totally uncontrolled and uncontrollable and to spend every flight running up and down the aisles. Almost every long haul flight from the GCC is a potential nightmare. My own solution? Well, call me callous, but I stick my feet out into the aisle just as one of these little brats comes tearing past. Brat ends up on the floor. After his second flooring he tends to give me a wide berth after that and the other kids learn from their peers. Other passengers regularly express their appreciation for “someone taking the law into their own hands” and cabin crew are also highly appreciative. The only ones who seem not to like my actions, apart from the brats themselves, are the parents as their offspring tend to stick around them and thereby ensure their flight is made a misery. And how well deserved is that!

[MarcusUK]

Some of the best kids in terms of behaviour when flying, reflect the countries attitudes generally, & where children should as their society teaches them.

Dutch Kids are always funny, but do as their parents tell them, and they remind them why they have to.
Thai’s the same when travelling, dis-courtesy to others would not be acceptable in Thai spiritual or moral life..
Aussie kids are all excited, but again firm boundaries & these are all examples of good parenting, education, & society values & morals

I find the British kids the worst, but then look at the behaviour of our younger generation compared to other EU countries. The UK Criminal Justice system is overloaded with them, & you can see the general attitudes on the streets in London. Bad parenting, P Correctness not common sense takes away respect for others, discipline & lack of community spirit, & an over-commercialised materialistic world they expect. Hardly “celebrities” role models are the worst example yet they are obsessed with them.
Not a great set of values from all this…
I don’t see this to any other level, in other countries, simple.

Its a fundamental failure of British Society, in cities overall.

So who do you think are the best behaved generally, reflecting their country’s Values?

[NTarrant]

Sorry Mark but you just can’t generalise children and pidgeon hole by class, race or creed. There is good and bad in all and parenting the same.

Last year my wife and I were travelling by train from Greymouth to Christchurch in New Zealand, the family at the table behind were awful, they were celabrating a birthday, yes the Grannies 80th who looked so p***ed off she was gazing out of the window whilst the children were taking control of the parents wanting this and that and they were giving it too them.

In my travels I have seen many “brats” from other countries. As I said in an earlier post its down to parenting and upbringing but that applies in all countries

[bombayteddy]

You havent lived until you’ve sat in a plane or airport-lounge, or at a resort’s pool, with screaming Indian brats. Makes one long for the days when a good tight slap was a permissible way to control one’s offspring.

But what does one do about their obnoxious mummies and daddies carrying on LOUD conversations on their mobiles? An equally loud “SHUT YOUR FACE!!” ?

[DNAdams]

I agree with you bombayteddy! Gone are the days when a clip around the ear of an unruly child was acceptable.

Also, gone are the days when you could tell off somone elses badly behaved kids without getting abuse or backchat .

[skyguy79]

I recently flew Economy Class from Pakistan to Manchester and there was a disturbed and clearly spoiled child running round pulling at curtains, kickign and punching people. He then began wailing midflight so I gave him some sweets to shut him up and it was the father I’d pinpoint. The father kept cuddlign and kissing this child. So of course when this brat wanted more sweets I got two hard kicks and was most bemused. I told the father in clear words that this kid, when he starts nursery/school will get many complaints about behaviour. If that had been my child they wouldn’t have dared to behave like this and if they did they would get a clout round the ear ! I’m only 30 by the way and all for good manners and etiquettes. Maybe kids of certain ages shouldn’t be allowed in premium cabins.

[Daytripper]

One pays an enormous premium for children to travel in business class too.

The premium paid by business passengers allows one a lot more personal space, as opposed to the opportunity to live is some kind of King Herod style child-free world.

[bombayteddy]

Bottom line (I hope!) :

Children are people, same as adults. Nobody can say they should NOT be allowed into Premium cabins, as long as someone has paid their fare. Upgrades, however, are an entirely different matter and should be on the judgement of airline personnel at check-in or gate. So are babes-in-arms, as their bawling is SURE to disturb others, and therefore should be banned totally from Business or (especially) First.

However, like ALL passengers, there are certain rules of conduct which children must follow. And if they dont know what those are, they should be told by their parents. And if their parents are unconcerned, they should be told such behaviour is unacceptable from their children.

I suggest punitive measures where requesting or reprimanding doesnt work for obnoxious adults or their offspring. A stiff penalty, payable on arrival, should work very nicely, I think!

[MartynSinclair]

The issue is that whilst people have the right to pay as much as they want for the tickets whether First, Busienss or Economy any pax in any cabin has the right to be resepcted both in terms of customer service and passenger etiquette. In the same way that a parent allows a child to run up and down economy class, to most people that is more acceptable becasue there is a saying you get waht you pay for. However a child running up and down the economy asiles is just as annoying to the person who is being disturbed.

I have absolutely no care in the world if a parent wants to spend £12000 (i was aghast that even adults pay this fare never mind kids) for a first class ticket, but when a minor travels there has to be a responsible adult. A child disturbing any passenger is wrong amd just becasue that child is in a premium class gives him or her absolutely no right toact as he or she pleases in the middle of the night.

I have no problem seeing kids in premier classes, I only have a problem if the children are the casue of me not sleeping in the same way that an adult fatty who snores and passes wind in the middle of the night makes the cabin extremely uncomfortable as well.

If you have a strong crew this becomes less of an issue – but i have seen as many adults casuing havoc including one recently who insisted on trying to use his phone at 37000 feet (as if it would work) in clear view of the cabin crew who purposely turned away to avoid a confrontation as the offender was an A list VIP.

Cabin crew in First and Buisiness need to show strength in dealing with issues and yes, the more a pax pays for the ticket the more security he or she should have in terms of comfort, esepcially in the ability to sleep, irrelevant of whether its a daytime or a nightime flight.

[Binman62]

AlexUpgrade77 and Daytripper……..nonsense

Bombay teddy could not agree with you more.

Martysinclair. Thank you for a common sense posting……

[Age_of_Reason]

I think the reasonable postings on this issue are conveying the message to the airlines that we, the paying passengers, expect standards of conduct to be enforced by the company employees whose job it is to ensure our Safety and Comfort, in that order.

assume all sensible managements monitor this site for clues and suggestions, however Bleating on this Blog is pointless unless backed up with detail sufficient for responsible operators to identify threats to their business.

And if the Experience was SO Bad, and your business value would be noticed if lost, then a personal letter is the only real recourse.

[Author]

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