[AMcWhirter]

This shock news emerged late on Friday. Initial reports were in Dutch but here is the NL Times piece in English.

Full details are unclear and we had previously reported on the relocated Eurostar terminal at Amsterdam Centraal.

But the disruption may last for 11 (eleven) months, possibly longer.

It has been suggested that Eurostar depart from Rotterdam instead but the small terminal there would not be able to cope.

https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/02/amsterdam-london-trains-months-next-year-due-maintenance-work?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2108541393/volgend-jaar-maandenlang-geen-trein-amsterdam-londen-om-werkzaamheden

1 user thanked author for this post.

WilliamRead

[MarcusGB]

After all this time generating interest, “On /Off” for a service to run, now it is interrupted and Off!!!
So many years…

I will stay with KLM and the 45 min Hop to Amsterdam from LCY thanks. It remains far more reliable, half the price when you look up most Economy fares, and v pleasant with the lounge, and ease and smoothness of the airports each way.
Makes travelling on with the £500-£1,000 less Long Haul Business fares from Amsterdam, always easy, and great value, with All Airlines Ex AMS!

[MartynSinclair]

Marcus – how realistic is it to use AMS as a London ‘local’ airport using Eurostar in terms of:

** travel times from St Pancras
** cost of ticket
** ease of commute, especially for the return AMS-St. Pancras. Is there good frequency

I presume that if Eurostar has mechanical problems enroute to AMS, then any missed flights would be covered by travel insurance.

Could Eurostar provide a cost efficient way to benefit from same day, ex-Europe tickets/transits without overnight stays at the airport.

1 user thanked author for this post.

WilliamRead

[MarcusGB]

Hi Martyn.
I did try several times, even before with Thalys connections. then it was 7.5 hrs door to door. Eurostar is the “90 mins before” catch and delays, shutdowns, overcrowding, that regularly happen to make me avoid.

I live in Far North London.
I can drive / taxi, around Suburbs and North Circ to LCY in 40-45 mins. I choose Saturday A M, or Weekday Afternoons to travel and fly out, off peak.I aim to be at airport 1.10 hrs before departure.

Within which…
Pre-booked park at airport 5-10 mins walk to terminal.
Check in Priority lane as Platinum Flying Blue. 5 mins.
Security 5-15 mins max.
Sandwich & Coffee at cafe, loo, next to Boarding gate.

Priority Boarding, Economy Comfort 3/4A, or Biz if Long Haul 1/2 rows, or upgraded if full.
Doors closed 10 mins prior to take off, usually within 5 mins. Rarely ever late.
(KLM Embraer 190 Aircraft arrives 30-40 mins before, and boards 20 mins before take off time. KLM is very Punctual)

2 hrs approx.

Flight 45 mins to AMS coffee n snacks on KLM CityHopper, Land taxiway-3-10 mins,5 mins bus or to gate into Terminal and Immigration.
Privium eye recognition through. No wait.

(If transferring i allow 1.30-2hrs to connect, go to KLM Crown Lounge, Eat, Bar / drink relax, Board for Long Haul 45 mins before
This remains quicker than going from LHR, and costs average £900+ less, often half the price Business Class ex Amsterdam compared to LHR).
You can either purchase a great through fare, or add the return on KLM to LCY, as KLM will connect the tickets, as do other Airlines.
So you can transit and save much in fares!

Luggage usually 10 mins after arrival. Exit to train underneath.
Scan Chipcard for train and onto platform within 5 mins, 15 mins train to AMS, or Express North (not via Amsterdam loop) to visit friends.
2 tram stops, or walk to INK MGallery nr Dam Square.

Arrive usually within 4-4.30hrs Door to Door.
Cost £84+ return.
ANY issues, great Customer Service, re-routed on other Airlines and offered Compensation before i board!

Eurostar –
I would have to take a taxi to St Pancras, 45 mins if clear, or Herts Loop Train and change at Finsbury Park to Kings Cross, allow 1.10 hr. (Trains x 2 often cancelled or no service weekends).

Validate ticket, security, gates close 30-45 mins before departure. Wait inside this departure area with no facilities.
Allow 90 mins before departure, as stated on website especially with queues or delays, cancellations, or whole closure of system. Seems often. KLM have 4 flights within 3-4 hrs ex LCY, or BA to be transferred onto. Though KLM fly when BA fail to!!!
Trains usually also on time, but slow down or stop at, or inside tunnel, and always delays at Brussels.
Late arrival at AMS always, queue, Immigration /security.
Most fares even months ahead at decent hours are over £150, Comfort+, £220+.
Best time has been 6 hrs +.
I find Eurostar AND Thalys even in standard Premier class, unpredictable, crowded, crammed in, often delayed, worst travel risk in Covid times, compared to new safe airflow of Aircraft.

Thalys / Eurostar do not care if you miss one train or another, as they just say “Separate”, and No Customer Service compensation if you miss a train.
I gain no decent loyalty to benefit long haul travel from the train travel.
They are completely different experiences, with more dodgy variables by train than by air.

However, i do enjoy the design, space, and reliability of Dutch rail, and the ease of a National Chipkaart, where rarely any fare is over 30 Euros within the country…and not having to book ahead, just get up and go. Always has been one of the best systems in Europe and v inexpensive, and value to “Get up and decide to travel”!

Pity AF do not fly from LCY to CDG either, where they would gain more transit passengers as KLM do from the UK, which is often 70-80% of passengers. LHR is no comparison to LCY for my flight needs.

I also keep my Platinum (Platinum for life next year)for Skyteam with Miles and XP’s, as often fly to Far East, or onto Australia. Have Thai Star Alliance Gold also. Ditched Gold Virgin, and Etihad Gold pre Covid, though Etihad was Excellent down to Australia, Business- or a £500 upgrade offered to First for the
Variable 14-16 hrs flight AUH-SYD.
Wonderful to arrive back at LCY and be out and home within 1.15 mins.

Of course, LHR i would be leaving home 4 hrs before departure, due to M25/ airport congestion and delays.
So avoiding at all costs.

5 users thanked author for this post.

TerryMcManus24, WilliamRead, cwoodward, LuganoPirate, ASK1945

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=1367545]Pity AF do not fly from LCY to CDG either, where they would gain more transit passengers as KLM do from the UK,[/quote]

That’s a pity considering how expensive Eurostar has become. Eurostar considers itself more an airline than a train operator and so if its capacity is limited from St Pancras (as we reported last summer) then fares will rise.

Last time I think AF operated the route was in the days when it was a code-share with Dublin-based Cityjet.

1 user thanked author for this post.

ASK1945

[MartynSinclair]

Thanks Marcus – I too am in north London, but was rather hoping door to AMS would be less than 7.5 hours by train. Pre covid, I would use AMS for the start of ex-Europe tickets, but with the continuing BA flight cancelations (and using a separate ticket for the positioning), I would not risk starting in AMS.

I tend to use Northern & Lizzy line to Heathrow and Northern + DLR to London City. I only drive within London if no tube / train lines available. Cost of cars to LHR from my neck of the woods has gone through the roof and the M25 can be a nightmare just before the M40 to the Heathrow turn offs. I have used Uber on occasions, but they go through the back streets of Harrow/Northolt, which if the roads are empty is not a problem. But at 9am in the morning – no thanks. Uber though is a cost effective option to get to Heathrow. However, Uber pick up from some terminals on the return, can take up to 30 minutes as they have to park 4 or 5 miles away from some terminals.

What a shame the UK does not enjoy the smooth efficiencies of train travel main land Europe style.

5 users thanked author for this post.

cwoodward, LuganoPirate, AMcWhirter, MarcusGB, ASK1945

[MarcusGB]

Always good to review though Martyn, for sure.
I live more on the Piccadilly Line side, and very outskirts of London, so i skirt around North Circ, to LCY at quiet times.
You are right, the fares to LHR have gone crazy for a cab!

I really do wish the train were an equal alternative, and not so crowded, or ridiculously priced.
Perhaps also, there is some value in being able to move around often with the flying process. 4 hrs sitting on the full train is not so great no matter where you might be seated.

I do not mind a separate KLM ticket return to AMS. I can always stay a few nights, as i did for my Singapore flight from there to SIN-KUL in Biz, in January. Leaving at 10.20am from AMS, it is not a flight you could really link into from the UK, unless you were up at 3am, and on a 6am flight!
On the return, as i then went on to Australia, having stopped in KUL, i had called KLM before leaving the UK, and they linked my whole trip on their system! Kindly SQ said it was fine then to check through on the return, so bags and transit all the way.
So i travelled on both trips, KUL-SIN-AMS-LHR, but i did buy a Business return from KLM on the LHR-AMS sector for £329.
My SQ return was only £1,850 ex AMS, so a good £1,700+ saving than if i took SQ from LHR.

I had a good 2 nights at Schiphol meeting up with friends on the way out staying in Citizen M, next to the Terminal, and a train trip up to Almere for some Dutch Clothes shopping, for which i also got my 21% tax back at the airport, prior to check in.

I have also taken The Eva Air Dreamliner 787-10 AMS to BKK before Xmas, for about £1,950, which leave around 9pm.
My next Great fare, is Air France, LHR-CDG (A220-300)-SIN (773 New cabin door suites), and Garuda onto CGK.
This was amazingly £1,890 return Biz!

Not sure if you get Dutch tax refunds using the trains?

[AMcWhirter]

On Monday the CEO of Eurostar travelled to the Netherlands to meet with rail and government officials.

No solution to the problem was found.

Today Zakenreisnieuws.nl reports a number of large companies in the Netherlands are “angry about [the] long Eurostar interruption” and that “business travellers are out in the cold.”

They feel this way because all 70 companies have agreed to reduce their CO2 emissions from business travel but their plans will now be affected.

Of course there are other surface alternatives to the UK, such as changing trains in Brussels or taking the Hook-Harwich ferry, but these involve longer journeys and might be more expensive.

https://www.zakenreisnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/22/spoorwegen/bedrijven-boos-over-lange-onderbreking-eurostar-zakelijke-reiziger-staat-in-de-kou

[Mark Caswell]

Latest from Eurostar:

Eurostar CEO “convinced” solution will be found to avoid Amsterdam suspension

[MarcusGB]

Using your Dutch Chipkaart, there is an hrly service still to Brussels when i was last there, and always has been. A mix of Dutch rail or Belgium older carriages, with First and standard available. A Fast Non stop supplement is payable prior to travel on the platform, with your Chipkaart.

Thalys and Eurostar to not match up in timings to my knowledge, often used to be 45-1.30hrs connection to wait in-between, and all the usual passports of two desks one behind the other of EU and UK passport control!!!

I did this some years ago before Covid, and the Thalys train was late for a 45 min connection through to the from AMS- Midi for the London bound Eurostar. The Thalys just stopped. No information to those connecting, so i had to rise up and ask and speak for those connecting to Eurostar and London.
“It is a separate train” The Thalys train Manager stated, though he eventually agreed to communicate ahead. He said they would hold the train for connecting people. 45 people had connections he stated.

Knowing the system on arriving at Midi, with a few minutes, i raced / ran ahead, trying to assist others and encourage them too,underneath platforms via Passport Controls – both…and just managed to get on the train.
I sat there 3 mins later to see them close the doors. The train then sat there for another 8 minutes doors closed. I felt guilty, angry and great sadness for all these others, especially an elderly couple i had tried to assist before.
The Eurostar had the same attitude, only 4 made it i heard later!

They, closed those doors in front of on elderly people, those from overseas and others bewildered by the change and rush needed. They all arrived from the stairs, and stood by the closed door train.I felt so awful, the next train being 2 hrs away, and they would have to pay an additional ticket, IF it was not fully booked! Otherwise, no seats, No travel.

I REALLY Do wish that the train was a reliable alternative. Not just for price but all i can do for my CO2 imprint, but for the reliability, speed and experience. With complete crashes for days on Eurostar systems, delays, mechanical issues, and other issues like this, i doubt i will EVER have confidence in this train route sadly.

I support KLM, and Schiphol, due to their efforts to cut the imprints we all make, and i offset extra payments for my flights. I Only take the newest less polluting aircraft, and choose the aircraft and route before buying accordingly. 787 series, A350’s, A200 series, Embraers are about as good as they get, and this is what i choose and use with KLM, and Air France.
AF will have renewed its fleet by 75% within a few years completely. KLM are continuing but i have no latest figures.
Schiphol is the most pioneering Airport in The EU in my view, gas powered and solar or electric powered ground vehicles, not just the odd plant, but whole walkways of vertical gardens aside you ( complete with forest sounds), but the air there is amazing!
I have respect with what they try to do, and achieve, in this ultra clean, efficient, and most organised airport, feeling more open and green than Singapore.

Alex, the experiences of Hook of Holland really are also very pleasant. But the “One” train from Liverpool St the Hook of Holland train, after an overnight trip on the ferry, is used to stop everywhere on the return and gets uncomfortably full.

This is quite a long trip, only for the same Dutch rail the other side, whether you take the day or night ferry.
Its v pleasant with a ship cabin, but yr fare even for a single no car traveller, is getting up to £300 at the best times, and at least 3 hrs train travel, plus the sea crossing, and the formal checks and security processes. Overnight its a 13+hr trip, and daytime literally all the daylight hours +!

I always wished they had built the tunnel to The Netherlands, with the connections ever present before and after to The Continent from the South of the UK.
Then came Brexit.

Would we really build such a project and tunnel towards the Continent today, knowing there was no longer free movement of travel ahead, with all the ferries still running anyway?!!!

2 users thanked author for this post.

AMcWhirter, cwoodward

[AMcWhirter]

* Update *

An independent consultant has been appointed to see whether or not Eurostar will be able to operate from Amsterdam Centraal during the new terminal construction.

https://nltimes.nl/2023/06/15/eurostar-consultant-look-future-amsterdam-central-station-trains

[WilliamRead]

Thanks for this revealing post. I have never travelled on Eurostar (or Eurotunnel for that matter),in for Eurostar I do not seem to have missed much. The fact that an experienced traveller such as yourself finds an aircraft better in all respects than the train says it all.

[AMcWhirter]

Thank you WilliamRead.

Eurostar can be very good when travellers purchase a Business Premier ticket or good in Standard Premier.

But of course these fares are higher than the regular standard class.

[AMcWhirter]

Some good news today.

A compromise has been reached with Eurostar and Amsterdam for the direct London service.

NL Times reports that there will be no *direct* Eurostar trains running Amsterdam-London for six months effective June 2024.

Travellers will, as they did before the Amsterdam terminal opened, have to disembark at Brussels Midi and clear UK Border controls before rejoining the London-bound train.

That’s somewhat better than the 11 months closure originally proposed.

London-Amsterdam will be unaffected as these checks are carried out at StPancras.

https://nltimes.nl/2023/11/24/direct-amsterdam-london-eurostar-trains-6-months-stop-brussels-instead

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cwoodward

[AMcWhirter]

Three days later and today UK’s mainstream media is running with this news.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/eurostar-amsterdam-london-cancelled-centraal-station-brussels-b1122698.html

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