New Gulf crisis and air travel.

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  LuganoPirate 13 Jan 2020
at 10:20
.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)

  • rferguson
    Participant

    The US FAA yesterday placed a ban on US airlines flying through a large part of airspace over the Gulf.

    Ironically, this is likely to affect non-US airlines more than US airlines themselves. Few US airlines pass through middle eastern airspace….I think maybe just a couple US – India non-stops?

    The ramifications for non-US airlines (especially those from the west) could be vast however. Aviation regulatory authorities from all over the world often follow the lead of the big USofA when it comes to such matters, or individually airlines.

    First off the mark seems Qantas. From now onwards their non-stop LHR-PER flight will be adding to it’s vast sector length by making a detour around the region. The ramifications of this – around 80 passengers on each flight (which hold only around 200 in total) will be offloaded to save weight. Qantas has said it may instead schedule a technical stop in SIN or HKG.

    Hopefully the issue will be resolved soon. I expect other airlines/aviation authorities will follow suit. MH17 over the Ukraine will still be fresh in many minds.

    https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-could-add-singapore-stopover-to-perth-london-boeing-787-flight?fbclid=IwAR1IqkktnSmaddqoxjacyB3wtH3y_MqXrv2lyQMSB5MChfD8LMF4MjNOcvM


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    I can recall the days of the first Gulf War.

    At that time EK used to route its Europe-Dubai flights via Egypt and Saudi. This added hours to the flight time resulting in changes to schedules, missed connections etc etc.

    Clearly if that were to happen today the effects would be far worse as Gulf aviation has expanded so much in the past 30 years.


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    I’ve been looking at Flightradar24, and most planes are now routing either North of Iran over Afghanistan or south over Saudi Arabia.
    I don’t actually believe Iran would shoot down a passenger airliner but with cruise missiles and the like possibly being fired there’s always the chance of an accident.
    I’m glad I’m flying Swiss next week down south!


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I don’t actually believe Iran would shoot down a passenger airliner

    With those loonies in charge, I am sorry to disagree with you.

    3 users thanked author for this post.

    Swissdiver
    Participant

    I don’t actually believe Iran would shoot down a passenger airliner

    With those loonies in charge, I am sorry to disagree with you.

    Well, we saw the USA shooting down a passenger airliner, not the Iranian to my knowledge…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    5 users thanked author for this post.

    maxgeorge
    Participant

    Indeed. It was the USS Vincennes. The Captain was rewarded for this act of terrorism with a commendation.

    On the subject of terrorism, it was the Israelis who shot down a Libyan passenger aircraft prior to that.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    GivingupBA
    Participant

    maxgeorge, but was the USS Vincennes tragedy an “act of terrorism”? I don’t believe the captain knew he was shooting down an airliner – wasn’t it mistaken identity, terrible as it was?


    maxgeorge
    Participant

    The Pentagon often refers to it’s ‘precision guided weapons’ etc.

    The USS Vincennes was a ‘state of the art’ warfighting machine at the time of the incident, equipped with the latest radar.

    For it’s crew to have mistaken a large, slow flying passenger jet for an incoming threat would require a level of self-deception or utter incompetence that beggars belief.

    On the other hand, however, the USAF bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, rather than the Serbian Defense Ministry building, because they had the wrong address.

    Another ‘sorry about that’ incident?

    One that the Chinese have not forgotten.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    AFlyingDutchman
    Participant

    When we talk ‘Loonies’ I think the biggest worry is the ‘Loonie in Chief’ currently occupying the White House!

    6 users thanked author for this post.

    rferguson
    Participant

    maxgeorge, but was the USS Vincennes tragedy an “act of terrorism”? I don’t believe the captain knew he was shooting down an airliner – wasn’t it mistaken identity, terrible as it was?

    I watched a brilliant Air Crash Investigation episode on this tragedy – ‘Mistaken Identity’. I cannot remember the exact details but the blame fell squarely with the US although it was not a deliberate taking down of a commercial airliner. A couple points I remember – when trying to identify whether the Iran Air airbus was a commercial jet or not they consulted an old school paper timetable. There was no scheduled take off at that time. But their timetable was out of date. And most crucially they were broadcasting radio warnings that they assumed the ‘threat’ would hear. But they were only broadcasting on military frequencies not commercial ones so the Iran Air flight never heard the warnings.

    I think to then award the Commander with a commendation is quite insensitive.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    maxgeorge
    Participant

    A White House commendation, no less.

    Surpassed now in it’s insensitivity by Trump’s reception praise and pardon of CPO Gallagher, a man so violent and lawless that his fellow SEALS have described him as’a man who would kill anyone’.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    maxgeorge
    Participant

    I’ve been looking at Flightradar24, and most planes are now routing either North of Iran over Afghanistan or south over Saudi Arabia.
    I don’t actually believe Iran would shoot down a passenger airliner but with cruise missiles and the like possibly being fired there’s always the chance of an accident.
    I’m glad I’m flying Swiss next week down south!

    Prescient!


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Flight LH 600 Frankfurt-Tehran on Thursday January 10.

    Yesterday Lufthansa attempted to operate the above with a Baku refuelling stop.

    But the flight turned around and returned to Frankfurt before entering Iranian airspace.

    Today’s LH600 is cancelled.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I am surprised western carriers have not suspended ops to Iran and Iraq.
    There is no way right now that I would travel to, over, or via that area.


    canucklad
    Participant

    A couple of points to make, albeit very much linked.

    1) Until the Iranians demonstrate transparency and allow independent experts to discount the shooting down theories that surround the recent tragedy then ICAO should shut down Iranian airspace to outside carriers. Although most ( 99.9%) Iranians are decent “just like us” folk , I’m afraid there are those in the Islamic Guard who are so fanatical , that they really don’t value life enough to differentiate between civilian and military targets.
    2) The litany of civilian loss due to military action without consequence to the guilty combatants would suggest that these “miscalculations” as they have been euphemistically described will continue if our flights are allowed to be in the vicinity of areas of high political tension. Again action needs to be enforced to reduce the risk to innocents

    Having said that , and what does it say about us as humans in the year 2020, we’d have to shutdown a hell of a lot of airspace !

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