[MartynSinclair]

DS – you can add reduced BA fares to the list of benefits.

Its a free world and “open Europe”. This forum does a great job in providing a gateway for a frank and open exchange of views between humans and “bottles of champagne” along with many other characters using a varierty of interesting names.

Instead of “empathy” I feel a degree of frustration in that others do not take advantage of the information supplied on this forum resulting in
enhanced travel benefits for a cheaper price.

Without casuing embarassment, I had the great honour of meeting a fellow poster yesterday in the BA lounge as we were posting at the same time. What a great chance meeting that was – thank you BT for holding this forum together and fellow posters for all your contributions.

So Disgustedofswiegi, the benefits I get are open to everyone on this forum, so stop moaning and bitching and go get.

[FlyingChinaman]

It is an unwritten rule that the home-based carrier NEVER wage a fare-cutting campaign in their home tuff against all the other airlines due to their dominance in the local market and with more convenience schedules.

BA will only do this in selected European markets with lower fare/better benefits to lure customers away from their national carrier whereas refrain from offering the same thing in their home ground as the others carriers would object to their discounting.

You will notice UK travellers have access to many Ex-UK long-haul low business fares on AF/AY/LH/LX which is not available to the European-based travellers from their countries.

Don’t forget air carrier offering indirect flights must charge a lower fares in order to compensate for the inconvenience, longer journey time and sometimes risk missed connections all together due to delays!

[TravelwaveBerlin]

in Germany not :-((
I m looking forward

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Has anyone in the UK sought legal advice on BA’s discriminatory pricing for UK residents? It certainly sounds like you could run a case that UK pax are being discriminated against on the basis of their nationality …………

[MartynSinclair]

Hi John – I hope you are safe from all that terrible flooding we are seeing on Sky news.

The discriminatory discussion I believe has been had beforehand somewhere on this forum. Bottom line is that all fares are now availilable thru BA, both on line and telephone sales. Some fares though are not loaded onto the airport computers though.

BA would only get into problems if they refused a ticket sale based on nationality. They have tried to refuse sales based on residency, I still have emails confirming I could only buy certain tickets if I was a German resident as well as emails from a well known German travel agent closing my account becasue I was buying cross border tickets and BA did not like it.

Saying that, the mood now seems to have softened with BA becasue you can buy cross border tickets in the UK and in Euros, however, you must use all sectors in the correct order.

So I dont think its a case anymore of “discrimination” more a case of market pricing and the way BA choose to sell their products.

[VintageKrug]

It’s not discriminatory pricing; it’s a indirect routing, different service offering. Many airlines have this price structure, even European ones who offer lower fares exUK than in local markets.

Excessive national “green” taxes also play their part in all this.

Any challenge would only likely have the effect of raising the prices charged exUK rather than levelling the playing field with European fares.

It is simply not true to suggest that UK based BAEC members never get any promotions.

Off the top of my head for UK members there has been most recently a targeted Triple Miles promo and I seem to recall a fly fully flex Club, get 10,000 miles promo (though not certain about the latter). Here were the T&Cs for the triple miles offer, which was for certain routes only, and explicitly excluded European members:

—–
Terms and Conditions

Promotion applies to certain published return and corporate negotiated net fare return flights in First (F, A) and Club World (J, C, D), on services operated by British Airways Plc only. It does not include flights operated by any franchisees, code share partners or oneworld Alliance members. Tickets must be booked, purchased and ticketed in the UK or Republic of Ireland only, for travel between 9 November 2010 and 15 December 2010 inclusive and all travel must start and finish in the UK. Pre-registration is required. Only the first four flights made by the Executive Club member will qualify for this promotion. Terms and conditions apply, please click here.
—-

In addition, there are many more possibilities in the UK to earn BA Miles through UK specific activities; shopping at Tesco for instance, which now yields a maximum of 100,000 BA Miles per annum , but used to be even more lucrative.

There have been well documented opportunities during 2010 to sign up for both the BA and Platinum American Express cards which came with tens of thousands of BA Miles, plus the mileage earning opportunities of being a cardholder long term. Such cards are not available to most European residents (there are some European BA affiliated cards, but these are much less lucrative than the Amex tie-up). Amex have run various Triple BA Miles shopping promos (such as in Regent street pre-Christmas) and also has the top table dining affiliation.

Recently there was a 25% bonus for transferring BA Miles from hotel schemes, and a 30% uplift on any Amex Membership rewards transfers as well.

There was a double miles offer through the http://www.ba.com/estore in early December.

UK members used to get exclusive access to the BA shareholder 10% discount, solely for exUK flights, though this is now available exEurope (still unclear to me whether you can actually be resident in Europe and still qualify).

So there really is plenty of mileage earning opportunity if you keep you eye on the ball. It is simply market forces which dictate the need to incentivise non-UK travellers to fly BA; remember they have to suffer the inconvenience of connecting while their local carrier can often provide a direct service, so both pricing and loyalty bonuses are adjusted accordingly.

I am confident there will be additional promos for the countries not included in this promo, and that some will include the UK members.

Of course, UK members benefit from the excellent BA Amex bonuses, everyday mileage earning and the 2for1 voucher which doubles the value of miles. This is not available to (most) European members, so if anything European members could make a case that these promos only level the playing field.

But given the lack of balanced viewpoints on here, I doubt many would see it like that.

It seems rather churlish to begrudge others with no access to the BA Amex/Tesco/shareholder discount the opportunity to earn bonus miles and to rail against these activities as “contemptuous”.

[Binman62]

VK. I think you may have missed the point, I do not think anyone has any concerns over what is being offered to European residents rather that no equivalent offer is made in the UK.

 

I am not aware that you cannot hold a Tesco club card living in France or that you cannot hold shares or obtain the shareholder discount. I do however know that if I have the temerity to move my residential address to another EU country, as I am entirely free to do, then BA and American express will strip me of my vouchers and my card. I might add that to gain 100,000 at Tesco would require a spend of around £20k if my math is correct.

 

Europeans and Americans have access to credit cards that are just as generous with the recent US card providing a 100,000 bonus or a club seat to London without the need to spend £20k.

 

The offers you site in defence of BA are simply not on a par with those on offer in Europe and the USA and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Moreover flooding the market with miles in this way devalues further this benefit generally as access to redemption seats, as I have shown repeatedly, is being seriously curtailed (possibly  even restricted in the UK market in favour of the USA and Europe.) With just 5 single club world seats in 12 months to Sydney this is hardly an opportunity to use you 2-4-1 no mater how flexible you are with travel dates!

 

I am delighted that you are a fan of BA and perhaps your travel spend brings you benefits that many of us will simply only aspire to achieve. However from my lowly position of being a self made, UK based, silver card holder, I have come to realise, through harsh experience in the last 12 months, that BA simply does not give a damn about me or my custom. There is evidence on this site from a wide variety of people, that all is not well in the world of BA. Your determination to support BA at any price and all respects is no doubt based on your own experience but I respectfully suggest that that it is not typical.

[Potakas]

I think the problem for UK residents is not about the offers and benefits that they get from BA, the problem arises because of the offers that the other residents have.

There are many examples such as the cards for the US residents or the baggage limits for the students coming from India, the biggest problem in my opinion for a UK resident is that he has to earn more tier points than a European one.

Although this sometimes makes sense because a passenger who is based on another country sometimes has to go to the opposite direction in order to reach London and then go to his/her final destination from there. They have to make it more attractive for them.

The worst for UK residents is that if they should start their journey from a UK domestic town this is not considered as a connection ”price” for BA, so anyone who starts his flight from EDI for example, will take a better deal if he choose to fly with KLM or Lufthansa.

In my eyes is a little unfair for UK residents but BA is struggling to keep its premium passengers and in order to achieve that, BA choose to offer more benefits to them, instead of cleaning the cabin interiors …

BTW, What is the cost in order to offer hot towels on CE cabin?

VK you are correct about the UK offers but just consider the amount of money that a passenger should spend in order to take advantage of the offer you mentioned. The offers are not so attractive but again this is the policy because BA is aware that a British passenger will prefer or it is more convenient for him to fly with BA instead of other airlines

[flier74]

As someone else stated earlier in this thread, I do not believe it is discrimination as such it is just how the Market works,
BA as UK’s flag carrier offfers at times better deals out of Europe, hence some UK residents fly out to BRU and come straight back to start their longhaul journey as it saves them some serious cash in some cases, especailly in Premium Cabins.
LH offers better deals out of the UK then on its german market and many Airlines just work it this way. Sometimes prices from the UK to Germany on LH are a lot cheaper then the other way around. There are loads of examples and BA is not the only guilty party, nearly all big carriers play that game and woe people from countries other than their homecountry onboard and their Frequent Flyer Schemes with bonus Miles and promotions.

And for the TESCO Clubcard example, I share my living between the UK and abroad and actually you can not register your Clubcard to an address abroad, I was informed, when I tried to do so.

I just hope a similar offer will be made available to other countries too, that would top up my mileage nicely after my trip to Australia next month

[MartynSinclair]

Somebody once said (and I wont mention the name in case I get the quote slightly wrong) that the purpose of a company is to provide an investment return (divi) to its owners (shareholders). The company is run by directors who ultimately make the decisions about how to create the dividends for its shareholders. This is not a decison by the work force or its customers (whom the company may on occasion listen to) but the directors.

On this basis everyone can scream UNFAIR or DISCRIMATORY or BAD SHOW but directors run the company not us.

If BA chose to sweeten Europeans or grant favours to students from India or give additional airmiles for increasing the credit debt in the USA, they do, becasue they can, becasue its their model.

If I were you, instead of moaning, play the game and take advantage. Its great having an address in Europe for my BAEC, the new Visa card in the states also gave me additional 100,000 airmiles (luckily I have a social number in the states) and I have just been able to transfer 1/2 million Amex points to BA miles with an additional bonus of 120,000 miles. I currently plan my flights that I earn a free longhaul every 3.5 flights I make with all the bonuses being achieved.

There is nothing illegal, I just play the game.

Stop bitch’n so much guys n gals and join in.

[flier74]

MartynSinclair
“On this basis everyone can scream UNFAIR or DISCRIMATORY or BAD SHOW but directors run the company not us.

If BA chose to sweeten Europeans or grant favours to students from India or give additional airmiles for increasing the credit debt in the USA, they do, becasue they can, becasue its their model.
There is nothing illegal, I just play the game.”

well said Martyn and rhats how I feel too, there is nothing discrimarory behind it, its just called Marketing and running a business.
Some will gain while others loose out, that is what the world of business and marketing is all about

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

So to summarse, Martyn

(a) you are okay with BA giving deep discounts to foreign pax
(b) you object strongly to lost revenues from seat 60B begin allocated as a rest seat

You either trust BA to be competent to manage the business, or not – which is it, come on, out with it!

[MartynSinclair]

My position is extremely clear, even for you:

1. Anti Walsh

2. Ex Europe fares are NOT discounted they are priced cheaper – as a customer I would be foolish to pay a higher price. The opposite arguement would go – how does anyone justify to their company paying more, when less can be paid

3. I believe BA (longhaul) pilots are receiving a benefit in an extremely questionable manner especially, when part of the benefit could be a taxable perk, thereby avoiding a potential tax liability. For those new to this discussion, see the thread about seat 60B – apparently its a pilots giveaway seat.

So Disgusted, I have made my position extremely clear. As a customer I am not foolish enough to pay more when the same can be purchased for less and as a shareholder I think that there are many financial seepages that need to be fixed.

[VintageKrug]

1. Anti-Walsh stance betrays a lack of objectivity. The share price is up 50% in the last six months (now 300p).

2. One justifies the cost to any business on the value of one’s time. Mine is a significant amount more per day than could be saved flying exEUR; yours is obviously less. exEUR is valuable for personal trips, but I stick with direct, full service flights when on business, or I stay home.

3. Has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread so I don’t know why it is mentioned here.

There is an entirely free market as to where you choose to base your BAEC account, purchase your tickets (simply change the drop down country at ba.com), and commence your journey so there is absolutely nothing restrictive in this arrangement, and indeed BA fares are more accessible than many other airlines who also have exactly the same local pricing structure.

I agree with MS that people should take advantage of opportunity where they see it.

And indeed, there are several valuable promos per year targetted at UK based BAEC members, not least the shareholder discount, the Tesco tie-up (where if you’re savvy you don’t need to spend anything like £20k to get the 100k BA Miles), the BA Amex bonuses/spending opportunities and most of all the 2for1 voucher which doubles your mileage value; none of these are open to European based members.

The original premise that BAEC treats UK members with contempt is simply not proven by the available evidence.

[PatJordan]

Very interesting (and lively !) thread.

Binman states: “Europeans and Americans have access to credit cards that are just as generous with the recent US card providing a 100,000 bonus or a club seat to London without the need to spend £20k.”

Sadly, this privilege does not extend to us poor mortals living in Ireland. If only somebody looked westwards beyond Britian…A market awaits.

Even better, maybe the Dublin Airport authority might persuade BA to return now that there’s a top class new terminal.

[Author]

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