[Anonymous]

[NTarrant]

Having read the BT article on buying rail tickets on line, I decided to have a look at mytrainticket.co.uk to see if it lived up to what the article said that it was different to other sites.

Yes it is but…. it fails on a number of cases. I put in to travel from Havant to Gatwick Airport, annoyingly it opens another window which shows the route you have asked for which you confirm.

It does show the fares on one side and times of trains next to them. But like most rail websites it does not say when you can use an Off Peak ticket or not, just that it is valid on “off peak trains”. So what are off peak trains?

You have to select the fare then the journey you wish to take which is a bit confusing as I prefer to select the journey and then be told if I can use that ticket. Having selected the train one proceeds to the next step, such as selecting reserved seats. This is another issue seperate from this. Having taken that option off you proceed to the next step with the flash saying that I am going to get one Airmile.

You then get to review your journey and then the option to purchase another ticket, but proceeding on you then get the option of collecting your ticket from the station or if far enough in advance by next day delivery at a whopping £7.50. You can skip the registering bit but you don’t get your airmile.

Then the sting comes when you check your order details, there is a 90p booking fee and if I wanted to use a credit card you can add another 36p. So my £15.45 rail ticket jumps in price to £16.71, good job I don’t want next day delivery or the price increases to £24.21.

The question is why would I want to pay £1.26 more for this ticket when I can go on First Great Western (www.fgwtickets.co.uk) and buy the same ticket at the face value as if I purchased from the machine at the station or over the counter?

The article mentions that currently only a small number of tickets are purchased online. Is it any wonder if some of these sites are charging booking fees. Collecting tickets from machines is just as time consuming as just buying the ticket from the machine. Particularly for a journey where there are frequent services as in my journey.

There are a number of things from my journey alone which conspire people not to use online booking. This particular site asks if I want a reservation, they are not available anyway and the site returns a message that the train may be full, when I know this is not true but an unfamiluar user may not.

Whilst it is appreciated that there is only one ATOC system that drives all the sites, the question is do we need another ticket site? I don’t think we do if it is going to charge fees. There has to be an advantage to buying online even for fares that are flexable, that they are easy to obtain and should be no more than what is available at the ticket office or machines.

Developing mobile and bar code technology is fine but there are still a number of revenue protection issues associated with this.

[continentalclub]

I have to say that I concur with your feelings on this new site’s booking process, and I also agree that the site does appear to be answering a question that no-one’s really asking.

There are already other 3rd party booking websites in the virtual world, and in every case it makes sense (if you can) to avoid them and use the train operators’ own sites.

At worst, you’ll avoid booking and card fees; at best you’ll benefit from special fares/discounts that are simply not available on the third party sites (and sometimes not at stations either). Unless you are making use of one of these sites’ corporate extranet facilities, then you’d be frankly barmy to do anything other than buy from the train operator.

The problem, overall, is not that existing websites are somehow poorly-designed; it’s rather, as you say, that the underlying system is fundamentally flawed.

Firstly, the UK rail industry does not understand the most basic concept of inventory. Unfortunately, neither does the UK passenger.

A rail ticket in the UK, unless it is of the non-flexible variety which comes with a seat reservation, is merely an authority to travel. It’s not a guarantee of passage. Technically, there is nothing to stop 1,000 tickets being sold, the purchasers of which all having the intention of travelling on the same 100-seater train. Only station or on-board staff can stop them from actually travelling. And, while 900 of them are being turned away, the system will still be merrily selling tickets to people who turn up at the last-minute and who intend to travel on that same service.

Meanwhile, UK rail passengers are (perhaps ironically) not used to the idea that a train is full for purchase. They expect a turn-up-and-go service, even if they don’t like the idea of paying for it. If a prospective passenger saw no availability on a website for a particular train, they’d just go to the station, buy a flexible ticket and expect that a) the website was wrong and b) they’d be able to get on the train anyway. Then they’d moan because it’s full and they’ve paid good money for their ticket.

So, until the industry can get its head around inventory, until it and passengers lose their obsessions with ticket ‘names’, until passengers (taxpayers) learn that a turn-up-and-go service would cost a fortune, and/or until the latter accept that a train, like a boat or an aeroplane, can be full/sold-out/standby-only, then the means of purchasing tickets on UK trains will always be compromised by the challenges/faults of the underlying system.

And that applies just as much to travel agents, station booking offices, ticket machines as it does to the web.

[NTarrant]

Thanks ContinentalClub for adding a bit more meat to the bones of the rail ticketing issue. There needs to be a focus on the system that drives the various websites so that customers can be informed in a clear and concise manner rather than the flakey way we are now.

The process is difficult for most people, the restrictions on ticket types need to be clear and not generic statements. I need to know that if I choose a particular ticket to Waterloo, that the cheaper ticket is vaild from the 1004 or that I can use the ticket on any train at any time.

The name changes were silly and have made ticketing more complex, driven by the Passenger Focus organisation which is run by acedemics with little travelling experience and that commissions research that is best fundamentally flawed.

Going back to the website, the obsession with reservations is off putting for those that know a service is turn up and go. There needs to be a revamp in the way reservations are handled so that customers can choose where they sit, perhaps at a small charge to have that seat rather than be allocated a seat they do not occupy.

Going back more than 30 years ago certain trains (West Country Saturday services, Irish Boat Trains) had seat regulation tickets, if you wanted a rfeserved seat you paid for it but if you didn’t you just had to have a regulation ticket which was to do what it said and regulate the number of passengers travelling on a given journey.

[PaulJennings]

Any website which tries to charge more than the face value of the train ticket pushing its luck. The commission (for want of a better word) paid to the ticket vendor is way more generous than that usually paid by airlines.

As noted above, operators’ own sites are usually best since most (all?) charge just the face value of the ticket, with no extras, not even for postage.

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk is quite nice to use as you can see all trains available for a particular fare and all fares available for a particular train.

[continentalclub]

I agree with your assessment of the East Coast website, MichelAngelo, and it’s one of a number that offer a discount on certain (of its own) fares that you won’t see elsewhere.

Add no booking fees, no card fees and free 1st class postage and it’s a compelling proposition.

In fairness to the third party sites though, their commission via the Rail Settlement Plan is actually not that much more than airlines offer, with the significant difference that the costs of becoming an RSP-approved agent are extremely high. Quite apart from the licensing costs, the ticket printer(s) and paper stock is also costly, and then they have the processing and postage and packing costs on top.

So, the irony is that, as comparatively expensive as they may be, they’re actually not making very much at all out of the whole ticket-selling activity. And, until e-ticketing and m-ticketing becomes widespread in the UK rail industry, they probably never will.

[NTarrant]

It makes you wonder why they start these sites, I suspect that this will go the same way as many others, such a Qjump et al.

Probably the only reason Thetrainline keeps going is that it is part owned by Stagecoach and SWT and EMT ticketing is done through them. But be aware, never buy an annual season ticket through these sites if you live in the London and South East area as they send you a normal Season rather than a Gold card and then argue that your stations are not in the area.

[BusinessTraveller]

Business Traveller replies:

I am glad that you all found my recent Focus piece to be of interest.

There wasn’t space to publish the entire interview with Robin Wells so here are answers to some of the points you raised.

As regards ticketing fees, Robin Wells told me “Ideally we would like not to charge a fee but thin margins and the economics of the operation mean we have to.”

On the matter of why rail firms’ own sites do not levy a fee, Wells replied. “It’s a frustration for us. It’s not a level playing field.”

I also asked why rail booking sites did not, unlike their airline counterparts, display seating plans which would enable passengers to select their favourite seats. According to Wells, “We are asking the TOCs [train operating companies] to make seating plans available. The technology is there to make it happen. The downside is that trains and carriages can change at the last minute and that electronic systems may fail.”

I may not have made this sufficiently clear but, to my mind, one advantage of using mytrainticket.co.uk is when passengers take a busy route served by “open access” operators. That is because open access operators tend to charge less for flexible fares than do the franchised holders

I am specifically referring to services between London Kings Cross and Yorkshire where franchise holder East Coast competes with Hull Trains and Grand Central with the latter just having added several new destinations.

If I were to book with a rail firm’s own site, as several of you suggest, the display may not have been as comprehensive and the display not as clear.

Check a departure leaving at 1100 from Kings Cross to Doncaster. The sites of East Midlands or First Great Western show four trains leaving between 1110 and 1210. It is not immediately clear who the operator is. Mytrainticket will display six departures between 1050 and 1230 along with the operators’ codes.

Yes, the mytrainticket’s display could be clearer but by offering a departure just before 1100 means I am alerted to Grand Central’s 1050 departure.

Two final things:

1) Thetrainline says it too is looking at offering both mobile and “print at home” ticketing. An announcement is expected “very soon.”

2) It seems some of you need the flexibility that comes with full fare tickets. So what do you think of the policy of Germany’s Deutsche Bahn to make Bahncards (rail cards) more widely available. Unlike the UK (where rail cards are offered only to specific age groups or may be limited to specific regions or off-peak times) those sold by DB provide nationwide discounts within Germany of 25 or 50 per cent at all times and can be purchased by anyone. It means the cost of a one-way flexible standard class ticket between Cologne and Frankfurt (a similar trip to London-Birmingham) on the high-speed ICE is cut from Euros 64 to Euros 32. Bahncards are more expensive than UK railcards but regular passengers can soon recoup the cost. Are they a good idea for the UK, I wonder ?

Alex McWhirter

[NTarrant]

Thanks for the feedback Alex..

Whilst I understand that the commission is not great, it does beg the question about the long term viability of these third party websites, given that a number have disappeared. I would question the need to give Airmiles and then charge a fee.

For me most of my travel does not require a reservation and I sometimes will buy a ticket from another station than I am travelling from so being able to book on line and collect where I want is great. However another point is why you have to choose which station you are collecting from. If you have the credit/debit card you purchased with and booking reference, surely I could collect from a station of my choice without being tied down.

Going back to the train operator codes, looking at a journey from my local station, Havant to London, I have a choice of SWT to Waterloo or Southern to Victoria, it would be helpful if the train timing showed the operator.

As regards mobile and print at home, there has to be easy use, such as through barriers and staff training.

I like the idea of a national railcard, but it would depend on the restrictions. Since the raising of the minimum fare on the Network South East Railcard, I purchase the cheapest annual season ticket to obtain the Gold card benefits (£132.00 Ryde Esplanade to Ryde St Johns Road or Newhaven Town to Newhaven Harbour, but purchase from SWT as you get six free tickets to use Fri, Sat and Sun(on SWT trains)).

This also gives the advantage of using off peak 1st class at £5.00 day return or single on everyday rather than just weekends and third off fares travelling after 1000 Mon to Fri. If you do a lot of rail travel in L&SE area and travel after 1000 then it does not take long to recoup the outlay.

It would be a good idea to extend that scheme throughout the country. My concern would be that you purchase this railcard and then the benefits drop off. But if the price was say £150.00 and gave the same as L&SE area conditions then it would be worth it.

[PaulJennings]

CC, thanks for your insight into the extra costs born by the third party operators; and Alex, thanks again for an interesting article and follow-up post.

The Isle of Wight season ticket is definitely worthwhile and pays for itself very quickly if you are travelling occasionally but often (if that makes sense) in the South East.

A more expensive railcard would be attractive, as long as the benefits were comparable to those offered by the existing railcards, and it would be easy to insist on a minimum journey length to deter commuters. Assuming a 1/3 reduction; one only needs to spend 3 x the cost of the railcard per year for it to be worthwhile. Even at £200 a year, many business travellers will easily cover this.

[gfilson]

I used thetrainline and crosscountry, they both helped when I needed to reserve a return seat. Phone mytrainticket to do the same – “we can’t help with that”. I pointed out that other booking sites do – no comment. I definitely won’t be using them again.

[NTarrant]

Thanks gfilson for bringing this topic back up. In the news section of BT there is details of the launch of Quno. Yes sounds a bit like Qjump from years ago.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/quno-a-new-rail-booking-tool

Certainly the feeling amongst posters there is yet another fee driven booking website.

It was good that gfilson got some assistance from thetrainline and crosscountry.

Here is another tip for anyone thinking about purchasing an annual season from SWT website, don’t! It is linked to thetrainline and I was issued a standard season instead of a Goldcard. When I called they tried to tell me my stations were not in the South East. I told them to get out a rail map and gave them directions to the stations. Eventually they conceeded that the stations were in the South East.

In the end they sent me a letter to take to any ticket office, the first station I happened to be passing refused to change it and the next one took half an hour. I paid £6.00 for recorded delivery (recommended) which I did get back and after complaining to SWT thetrainline gave me £25.00. Never again!

[Author]

Posts