[Anonymous]

[MartynSinclair]

As a British businessman, a passenger’s departure through Heathrow this morning to the USA concerns me greatly and as a forum dedicated to business travel, we should consider.

Christopher Tappin left Heathrow this morning not knowing whether he will ever return to the UK. His crime, there isnt one, there is only an accusation the US Government.

I am concenred becasue we take travel to the states for granted and we rely on our American ‘cousins’ for trade. Yet here is a British grandfather, going to jail in the US, whilst still inocent and without being charged.

What ever the outcome of the subsequent trial, I would urge you all to watch the sky news link below, spare a thought for Mrs Tappin and wonder whether this could ever happen to you.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16176079

[RichHI1]

I am getting fed up with the spin that is going on today. Martyn please do not take this personally.

Mr Tappin has been accused of trying to sell prohibited parts for weapons to Iran.

The English Judiciary has considered the application for extradition and the ECHR has found no grounds to intervene.

It is regrettable perhaps that he and his lawyers have made it necessary for him to be extradited.

Whether or not Mr Tappin is guilty of any offense is up to the courts to determine. It is right and proper that due legal process should be followed.

If Mr Tappin was a US citizen being extradited to the UK for a similar offence I think you would find the same things would occur. There have been attempts to denigrate the treaty for extradition with claims that the process and the burdens of porof are uneven, however when this was examined by the English Judiciary it was held that they are substantially similar and that the views of difference were the result of a lack of understanding of the subject.

[Bucksnet]

Well he has not been charged with any offence yet, and the US have produced no evidence; very worrying. He could spend years in jail waiting for his trial unless he accepts a plea bargain. At least he could be charged and a trial date set, with the UK assuring them he will turn up on time.

Even more worrying is that a fundamental principle of English common law, that of being innocent until proven guilty, is going to taken away from us in the UK whenever the EU decides to implement it. Don’t believe me? It’s in the Lisbon Treaty.

[MartynSinclair]

No spin Rich, he has been accused, without a shread of evidence being shown into the American Judiciary system!

This case worries me more than the Nat West guys. The ease of how the Americans can simply stretch their arms and pluck businessman without the need to show evidence.

[VintageKrug]

It’s quite appalling that he has been extradited.

This should never have been allowed to happen.

[HonestCrew]

Shame we couldn’t /can’t get the IRA bombers back from the US to face justice here. The fact that half of them seem to have married into the Kennedy family over the years could IMHO be a factor.

[RichHI1]

Martyn I respect your opinion and the rigth to hold it but when you say “The ease of how the Americans can simply stretch their arms and pluck businessman without the need to show evidence.” you are factually inaccurate.

The text of the Scott Baker report for those who care to read it.

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2011/oct/uk-baker-extradition-review.pdf

Summary for those who do not find legal matters fascinating…

The United States/United Kingdom Treaty23
1.20 We have concluded that the United States/United Kingdom Treaty does not operate in an unbalanced manner. The United States and the United Kingdom have similar but different legal systems. In the United States the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution ensures that arrest may only lawfully take place if the probable cause test
is satisfied: in the United Kingdom the test is reasonable suspicion. In each case it is necessary to demonstrate to a judge an objective basis for the arrest.
1.21 In our opinion, there is no significant difference between the probable cause test and the reasonable suspicion test.
1.22 In the case of extradition requests submitted by the United States to the United Kingdom, the information within the request will satisfy both the probable cause and the reasonable suspicion tests.
1.23 In the case of extradition requests submitted by the United Kingdom to the United States the request will contain information to satisfy the probable cause test.
1.24 There is no practical difference between the information submitted to and from the United States.

[Bucksnet]

Obviously not appalling enough for you to vote against it VK.

The ‘conservative’ party supports this policy, and the removal of the presumption of innocence on EU orders.

[Bullfrog]

I appreciate the seriousness of this case, but I can’t see why it should be posted on this ‘travel forum’.

There are many issues which are close to our hearts, whether it be the ability of the American judicial system to extradite UK citizens, the Somali crisis, the Syrian manslaughter or the nuclear issues facing the Gulf State, to name but a few.

I don’t think this s the place to discuss them unless they impact on the travelling public.

[RichHI1]

Bullfrog I would agree save for making the point that as Frequent Air Travellers we are reliant on the splendid efforts of the security forces to limit the activities of terrorist and rogue states that support terrorism which could result in tragic losses life such as we have seen in past years.

The Hawk missile is a surface to air missile designed to bring down aircraft.
(EDIT I now understand there are also some Air to Air Hawk missiles installed on Iranian Jets)

[VintageKrug]

I think it’s relevant as many of us do business around the globe.

Thankfully, the Party is a broad church and tolerates a diversity opf perspectives.

[Bucksnet]

If you can tolerate: –

Deportation of British citizens without evidence of crime
Removal of our rights on the orders of a foreign power
The planned destruction of our economy
A dumbed down education system
Giving benefits to foreigners on their first day in the UK
A massive increase in crime
CP/DVD assets in all levels of government, with the possible exception of the military
Excessively high taxation AND massive government borrowing
Terrible transport infrastructure

and many others, then that’s your choice VK.

[RichHI1]

– 24/02/2012 17:07 GMT

Would that the “party” leadership was as tolerant of diversity in opinion. Unfortunately those that do not march to the EU drum seem to be ostracized or patronized.

[MartynSinclair]

I posted on this forum as a genuine concern to those that have business relationships stateside. It is VERY relevant to all business travelers.

As previously stated, its a basic right, innocent until proven guilty. If there is sufficient evidence, then show it and the sympathy this story has raised will simply disappear.

Mr Tappin may indeed be guilty, in which case throw the book at him, none of us though are in a position to know.

I would have thought our Government would have done more to protect Mr Tappin rather than hand him to the wolves who are simply going to make this yet another show trial. His guilt / innocence will soon be totally irrelevant.

Thanks for the report Rich, I am sure it is interesting.

The other extreme of course is the person, who Britain is unable to extradite as it could breach his human rights.

[Author]

Posts