Should primary security checking be carried out on a non gender basis?Back to Forum
Canucklad, it never occurred to me see your comment as anti-gay so please don’t worry about that. You are making very good points about a topical issue over where to draw the line.
A slight digression here this debate reminds me of a dilemma that a friend of mine was involved once. She was part of a group of 3 people, all of whom were just friends and not involved with each other. They ended up at a hotel and the only room available could sleep 3 people but there were only two beds, a double bed and a single bed. The group consisted of a straight woman (my friend), a lesbian woman and a straight man. They had quite a debate over who would have the single bed and I would be curious to see who you think it was!5 Nov 2018
Apart from the fact , that I always feel a pat down is intrusive, regardless of who is doing it. I have know way of knowing if the person patting me down is straight or gay. I don’t care, all I hope is that they will do it with respect.
Having worked as Crew for over 30 years, it always amazes me when people say “you always can spot if someone is gay”. I couldn’t care less either way, it is not really relevant. The thing is you can’t tell. Like rferguson, I have come across those I have thought might be and aren’t and vice versa. Equally I can assure you, that being married to a partner of the opposite sex does not make you straight, neither does someone referring to their children.
For me, role on technology, that I don’t have to be touched by an individual, whether they are gay or straight.5 Nov 2018
Yes it was my straight female friend who got the single bed. She confessed to me that she would have been more comfortable with the straight man than the single woman.
The point about that anecdote is that there is no hard and fast rule. Provided everyone is grown up it should be possible to sort these issues. The problems come when the grown ups aren’t around.5 Nov 2018
To recount a small tale. Arriving at Zurich I was randomly pulled aside for a check by a female policewoman. I started to open my arms and she said “just a minute sir for my colleague”, pointing to a rather large policeman. I said I’d prefer you checked me to him to which she replied with a truly lovely smile, “sorry sir, it’s not allowed”!
Personally I don’t care who checks me, and if they should accidently touch my private parts so be it, I’m not going to be offended, unless they linger or deliberately fondle that is, which has never happened to me.6 Nov 2018
I wonder if anyone would tolerate such a comment about “an obviously gay woman”, or “obviously straight man”?!
And if someone of an “undecided Gender” or transferred Gender which seems to be topical these days…
Shocked to see such a comment on here, though not surprised these days.
Security, is not a Profession, which requires advanced education, 3-6 years training, a licence, and is regulated by Law, or Professional bodies. The use of “Be professional” is often mis-used, as here.
A Registered Nurse “Professional”, is clearly defined in law.
Whatever work role, people should be able to do their job regardless of judgement of others, or being boxed. Your beliefs have no place in this regard, unless they go beyond the work and assault you. No matter where you travel around The World, primary searches, you are searched in public, full view of others, increasingly by whole body scans first. I have found no problem Worldwide in being body searched if needed, for the safety of me and others travelling. If you do not want to have such searches, then you are not obligated to use the Airport.
Bare in kind the huge history of events, why security is as it is, and how restrictive it has become, but we are now seeing
“Break throughs” in better scanning for chemicals and body as in Amsterdam. No items are taken out of your bags, all checked in a very thorough scan, and whole body scan of you. These are very revealing if they chooce that option, including shapes of all your external body parts!
As a Director in Healthcare and Professionally registered, I inform you Many Professions -Nurses/ Dr’s – Lawyers – Teachers – Police Military – paramedics etc… function according to their role and Professional behaviour, which is regulated. Most probably, their behaviour will be the same in the same role towards you. It is non discriminatory.
Does it really matter of the gender origin of the above, when care and protection is being given?
How would you like your emergency services to respond to you if you like to choose their gender and sexuality?
Perhaps they should refuse to treat you with such attitudes? Emergency Services treat anyone, regardless of any behaviour shown towards them.
Let alone someone’s sexuality.
I am surprised that The Police have not had this reported to them, and not acted against you for this discriminatory, and bordering, unlawful comment…7 Nov 2018
Well MarcusGB, as you saw earlier on in the thread….
Someone has reported this for inappropriate content.
It seems that the majority disagree with the OP, but then, you’ve also answered his question from your points of view, so that’s discussion.
No one has insulted anyone else as far as I can see.
Should it be removed?
I have opened it up to debate, a debate you have also thoughtfully contributed to.
However the end of your post seems to suggest that this should now involve a criminal investigation.
So going back to the question I posed, presumably you think it shouldn’t be debated, and this thread should be deleted?7 Nov 2018
I was the one who found MarcusGB comments inappropriate.
I think that has been an excellent discussion. Someone raised a perfectly legitimate question which we all pondered and the majority view seems to be that far from endorsing the OP’s original suggestion, the real issue is that searches are gendered at present and that doesn’t make sense in today’s world. Therefore we seem to have arrived at a consensus that the answer to the heading is yes.
Had the OP not raised the question, we might have continued to implicitly endorse gender based searching without really thinking through the implications so the OP should be congratulated for flagging this issue up and the BT contributors (bar MarcusGB) should be praised for the way they considered the question.
MarcusGB however thinks that merely bringing the question up is worthy of police attention and no platforming the whole debate. This is why so many divisions exist in today’s world, a desire to shut down debate rather than facilitate it. I would not call the OP a bigot, I will call MarcusGB a bigoteer (a term invented by Nassim Taleb) and hence why I reported his comments as inappropriate.
Plus as an accredited and trained professional myself (note the lower cases), I also found his Professional snobbery incredibly irritating.
1 user thanked author for this post.7 Nov 2018
I think the thread should continue. It provided me with the opportunity to criticise what appeared to be homophobic prejudice and most others seem to have agreed. An intrusive inappropriate search remains just that, regardless of who carried it out and there is no reason to suggest gay men are unable to carry out appropriate searches.7 Nov 2018
I think the thread should continue. It provided me with the opportunity to criticise what appeared to be homophobic prejudice and most others seem to have agreed. An intrusive inappropriate search remains just that, regardless of who carried it out and there is no reason to suggest gay men are unable to carry out appropriate searches.
Extremely well put.7 Nov 2018