Long-haul flights by carriers not from their home hubs
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at 08:42 by canucklad.
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AnthonyDunnParticipant@ transtraxman – 22/10/2012 17:20 GMT
Small point but PA and TW based aircraft at LHR when they had intra-German networks under the aegis of the Allied Four Powers agreement regarding access to the former territory of West Berlin.
When the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain came down in 1989 and the DDR/”West Berlin” ceased to exist as political entities, so did PA/TW/BA/AF’s intra-German routes and thence the need for all of those PA/TW 727 and 737s based at LHR.
25 Oct 2012
at 13:32
KSHaggagParticipantHi Transtraxman !
By today s standards ,SQ is a world leader in ((fifth freedom )) legs e.g. DME/IAH,BCN/GRU,FRA/JFK,NRT/LAX,SFO/HKG,DXB/CAI ,etc…..As Long ago that was KLM using DXB as almost a secondary KLM home and linking it to BKK,SIN,CGK,HKG,NRT,ATH,VIE,MNL,etc…..
As for Openskies ,yeppp they were dying to link MIL and NYC but the 757 could not reach NY from MIL nonstop without a costy refuelling stop …GVA has a strong traffic to NYC too but you need a crew base ,etc….obviously ..it seems sticking to their ORY hub is a good idea so far but new opportunities need to be explored …in the case of IAD they were offering a more competitive product than AF A380 with 500 seats on board ..for biz people ,flying a private biz jet like the Openskies 757 is a blessing but NO SUPPORT for the route was extended by BA at all …..I wonder why ..at the end of the day ,EC is carrying the BA flag /logo ……….maybe Montreal or Boston could prove worthwhile …to be seen…BRU/NY is now congested with the arrival of SN on the route with a strong product ,pushing Jet airways to axe BRU/JFK and keep BRU/EWR only …also AA is leaving BRU if I am not mistaken ….Openskies needs feeder traffic from IB and BA via ORY …let s see its move into Orly west how successful it will be ..it was supposed to make connecting from/to BA and IB a swifter experience ….25 Oct 2012
at 13:47
transtraxmanParticipant@Anthony Dunn 25/10/2012 13:32 GMT
Just one point. As far as I remember only AF, Pan Am and BEA/BA had traffic rights into West Berlin. That is why they were able to fly direct from their own capital cities – of course this only affected AF and BEA.
The three airlines, however, provided the domestic German network into W.Berlin. Correct me if I am wrong but, I believe that BA morphed into Deutsche BA while AF morphed into Air Berlin. This of course was forced on the airlines by the German government before the open skies agreement in Europe. Ironically, AB took over DBA eventually.
Both TWA and Pan Am flew on to other mid-haul destinations in the Med. and Middle east with the smaller aircraft based at LHR.25 Oct 2012
at 15:12
millionsofmilesParticipant@ transtaxman
what you say is correct. TW was not in the Germany game.
BA became deutsche BA, and they were swallowed by AB. PA had intra-German services to Berlin, but also feeder services from other German cities like NUW to RA for their longhaul destinations. PA had a couple of 5th freedom rights out of FRA. So did TW, distributing some pax out of FRA to other destinations in ME and Europe.
AF more or less drew out of the WestBerlin services.
As soon as LH could fly into WestBerlin and former Eastgermany, the business got lost for PA, BA and AF.25 Oct 2012
at 15:44
AMcWhirterParticipantWould it be worthwhile for VS to fly transatlantic from DUS, CDG or TXL where the Virgin brand is recognised ?
It seems logical but would VS want to be known as charging lower premium fares outside its home market ?
Would VS, which lacks a really strong FFP, be able to compete in the
corporate market with the Star and Skyteam carriers ?Would VS be happy with the yield in its premium cabins ?
Just now I checked the return J class fare from TXL to New York with opodo.de The dates were out on Mon Nov 5, back on Fri Nov 9.
Opodo’s cheapest fare was a price of Euros 1,580.71 return with BA via LHR.
Out of LHR to New York, for the same dates, the VS website was quoting GBP 4,493 return for Upper Class without the chauffeur car.
So if VS were to fly non-stop to New York from TXL the J class yield would be considerably less than from LHR.
25 Oct 2012
at 21:43
canuckladParticipantI’m going to make a prediction for the future,…….
As global market de-regulation increases, the alliance airlines will fly Intercontinentaly as a single one brand ie One World Airlines, Star Airways and Skyteam Air etc….Sharing the costs and the revenue based on whatever Hub to Hub journey is being made….
List of Hubs
Oneworld….LHR-JFK-/DFW- HKG-NRT etc
Star…….FRA-/BKG-CPH-ORD- YYZ-YVR-NRT
Skyteam…..ATL-AMS-CDG-NBO etcOnly in the home market will the base carrier have its identity and then be used as a feeder on short haul routes.
This would benefit the Cost reduction from sharing of:
Flight and Cabin crew costs
Sales offices
Maintenance facilities
Operational facilities, e.g. catering or computer systems.
Operational staff, e.g. ground handling personnel, at check-in and boarding desks.
Investments and purchases, e.g. in order to negotiate extra volume discounts.Non aligned airlines would have to become niche cpoint to point carriers
26 Oct 2012
at 08:42 -
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