London Heathrow Airport third runway U-turn ahead

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  • Binman62
    Participant

    I find I am in complete agreement with VK on this.

    A new purpose built airport is required offering true 24/7 operation and managed by someone other than BAA


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    There needs to be an new Airport.
    However, with those we have due to the lengthy time-scales of these being created unlike the Middle / Far East operators, we need to use what we have to a greater and more efficient extent.
    The long term goal should be to establish a new Airport.
    LHR is clearly at capacity.

    Perhaps a radical plan of clearing LHR of domestic flights, (as many have abandoned over the last years and are all obtainable via train), and placing them at Stanstead, or making better use of this airport is needed. Connections are essential but we need an immediate solution in using capacity more efficiently, a medium and long term goal.

    The long term goal, can only be the creation of a new airport. The time-scales the UK takes to make these plans reality are incredulous, and not a good example of the capability of the UK compared to others.

    I would like to see the standards of BAA shoot into the past whatever is created, and welcome competition, as the example of the development of Gatwick in recent times.


    RichHI1
    Participant

    I disagree with the poster who cannot be named mainly in respect of wording. With any solution there is seldom “the”‘ answer but there many answers. London needs a new airport built for the next 70 to 80 years not the last however it also needs an interim fix to stop the current deterioration. Runway three should be expedited by an all party approach including local and national government. Doing this does not preclude moving towards a longer term solution as well. Where that is located is another matter.


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    Marcus, not all domestic destinations are ‘obtainable’ by train. What about Belfast and other Irish cities that are also considered domestic? What about IOM, JER and GCI? Who is going to take the train from ABZ, GLA, EDI or NCL to catch a flight from Heathrow, when it would be far easier to connect at one of the European hubs?

    If there needs to be a new airport built then let it be entirely privately financed, and let airlines choose it and not be forced to move.


    Kopite52
    Participant

    The Boris Island is a terrible idea not least because it is in a very difficult place to access east of London so unless you live in Essex or Kent this is not going to be of any benefit at all even if they build infrastructure. What is needed is decentralisation of UK airports. Best bet is completely rebuild and expand Birmingham. It is only 1 hour from Euston by train. There is far far too much traffic already round the M25. Or what about the UK Central airport once proposed to be build around Rugby in the south Midlands. Not everyone flying to Heathrow is visiting London. Having a major airport in the Midlands makes sense as it can still serve London (train time same as to Stanstead) but also serve the Midlands and as far north as Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool due to proximity to M6 & M1.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING BORIS ISLAND.

    The proposal on the table is the THAMES HUB.

    http://www.fosterandpartners.com/News/458/Default.aspx


    RichHI1
    Participant

    Actually the post is about Heathrow not future schemes in other places.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Not really.

    The Third Runway cannot be discussed in isolation; its justification is usually centred around a shortage of runway capacity in the South East; there are many ways this could be solved, from making better use of what we do have at LHR (stop private aviation, encourage cargo to Stansted where possible, permit night flying for quieter aircraft with approaches from the West) to adding runways at both Stansted and Gatwick (where there’s both space, and need) and exploring the longer term plan.

    I used to be a big fan of the Third Runway; as my local airport it would reduce delays and increase the range of destinations I can use, as well as guaranteeing shorthaul routes which might otherwise go the way of all flesh as such services become less profitable.

    But having looked into the evidence more deeply, the fundamental problem is the “what’s next?” question.

    You can’t just take a shortsighted view for the next decade; building R3 would simply fulfil the already existing latent demand; it wouldn’t really add considerable capacity (shorter runway, reducing capacity on existing northern runway due to taxiing across it and still closed for 25% of the day) and it would cause considerable environmental damage and disruption, not to mention cost.

    All this at a BAA run facility….

    The right strategic decision isn’t R3.

    Thames Hub (NOT Boris Island, which for the nth time is a different proposal) is one of the longer term solutions:

    http://www.fosterandpartners.com/News/458/Default.aspx


    canucklad
    Participant

    I’m just going to chuck in the simple political fact that unfortunately airport expansion in the south east is restrained not by economic neccessasity ,nor enviromental issues —-

    But the simple fact that the Tory party is not going to jeopardise seats in constutiencies that are in , or surround LHR/LGW or even Stanstead…….

    As far as I know the flight path to the 3rd runway won’t even fly over Richmond Park and yet the local Hooray Henry MP is yacking as if concorde is going to make a come back !

    I will add that another argument against the “greenies” is the queing time to take off (leave gate at 18.00-take off 18.40) not very green !! –especially when you’re on a A319 waiting behind a “Heavy”….allow the smaller aircraft the opportunity to depart more efficiantly!


    canucklad
    Participant

    Also going to add how quickly those same MP’s would change their anti LHR rhetoric and become it’s champion if and or when VK’s vision for the Estuary is seriously considered as a viable option!

    Absolute hypocrites– what way is the wind blowing today!


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    Clearly i did not refer to train services across water as being domestic!

    If we are to invest in the HS2 that will run into LHR, then the journey times from Scotland will match, if not better flights, taking into account travel to / from, security etc. These are absent from Train travel.

    I would have thought the finances and time would be better to cancel HS2, and be put to urgent re thinking on the strategy of short medium and long term provision.

    According to BBC news, Schiphol has become the National Airport out of the UK for long haul, as services so well connect from the regions, unlike services to LHR. Etihad, Emirates are also taking business from the regions in Scotland, Midlands directly out to the East. Alex discussed this recently in terms of China connections out of Paris and Amsterdam to far more destinations than LHR serves. It was also highlighted in The Times concluding the same a few days ago.

    However, we urgently need as VK suggests, a long term strategy, not years of debates, inquiries and faffing around!
    But we need to use what we have better now, and have a medium term plan. I see no “Vision” in anything the Government has put forwards!

    As a result we have already and will continue to shed air travel passengers from the regions, to hubs in Europe.

    Puts us to shame when you consider the airports in KUL, BKK, HKG that were established so quickly by comparison. What is it about The British that means we cannot get clear strategy and Operational management to build, on time, on budget?

    Bring in The Dutch to Manage it all I say!


    Kopite52
    Participant

    Anywhere east of London is a bad idea for anyone not living in Essex / Kent which is most of us!


    Kopite52
    Participant

    Anywhere east of London is a bad idea. London and the associated traffic around the M25 isolates this part of England from the rest of the country. This Thames Hub or Boris Island is only ok for people who live in east London, Essex or Kent. For the rest of England (most of us) it’s very very inconvenient.


    canucklad
    Participant

    You make some very valid points MarcusUK, i will have to slighty question you on one of your points……

    Rail travel in this country is nothing short of a joke…and to use this joke of a service you are expected to pay through the teeth…

    Yet another flaw in the nanny states policy of attempting to make us break our domestic air travel habit…..Waverley to derby in just under 5 hours Yipee….and thats not accounting for the usual stuck behind a local service / broken down train / staff shortage delays that are the norm…….Did I mention i’ve not yet reached Birmingham and the HS2 yet! would love to make this point in jest , unfortunately its travel fact !


    Bucksnet
    Participant

    VintageKrug – 12/06/2012 06:09 GMT

    WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING BORIS ISLAND OR THAMES HUB.

    The title of the topic is “London Heathrow Airport third runway U-turn ahead”

    I understand that you want to expand the topic to include your wet dream, but it’s just not viable. And if LHR is your local airport and you want to trek across London to get to the east coast, then be my guest. Most people west of central London will soon tire of that journey and long for the return of LHR, which will be forcibly closed.

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