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MarcusGB, you said “Actually Air India fly fly 9506 miles, from Delhi – SFO”. Thanks very much for the interesting article you gave a link to, but with the greatest respect to you, I don’t know why Air India would fly that distance when Great Circle Mapper gives 7706 miles for DEL-SFO via a polar route (crossing Russia and Alaska) – quite a difference? I realize the article talks about tail winds over the Pacific, but it still strikes me as odd, can anyone throw light on this? Thanks!10 Dec 2016
It’s interesting how the Qantas Australia – UK operations will pan out.
Personally, i’d always struggled to see how Qantas could make a success out of it’s PER-LHR direct flights. It seems according to a friend I have that works in Qantas’ head office in Sydney that plans are already in place to re-jig the entire QF Australia – UK operations.
Qantas currently operate two daily flights from Australia to London. Both via DXB, both on A380 aircraft. It’s no secret that the MEL-DXB -LHR service has suffered from poor loads. Especially on the DXB-LHR leg. Qantas restructured the LHR services a few years ago to try and make their UK operations more profitable by re-timing the MEL flight and although this has reduced costs by having aircraft on the ground at LHR for shorter periods of time the flight is still not busy between DXB and LHR. The A380 is simply too big a beast to fill. Whilst the flights are generally busy MEL-DXB the majority of those passengers leave the aircraft in DXB to fly onto other destinations in europe with EK.
So…can Qantas justify adding more seats to the UK? Well according to my mate, they don’t want to make the mistake of having too many seats to fill and the network will be restructured again. One plan being discussed is that the SYD-DXB-LHR service will remain as is. MEL-DXB-LHR will be dropped with EK moving in to fill the gap to DXB and beyond with a QF code. And…the IMHO the most clever plan….the PER-LHR 787 will actually originate in MEL, take the current QF9/10 flight numbers and operate MEL-PER-LHR as a one stop service. Exciting stuff!
Qantas certainly has plenty of time to fine tune its plans. I don’t think i’ve ever seen an airline generate so much PR blurbs about an aircraft (one already in service for loads of other airlines) than QF has with the 787. They’ve been talking it up already for a good year speculating on routes it could perform. Six weeks ago they officially released the configuration and seating details (over a year before taking delivery of their first aircraft) and here we are in December 2016 and they are making route announcements for March 2018!11 Dec 2016
@LP – You are a lightweight, 18 hours in a “real F class or proper C class” – no problem…
I think the bigger problem will be the state I am in when I land :))))11 Dec 2016
Even if MEL-PER-LHR I just cannot see this panning out. Also seems a rather odd time to be starting it, March is just past the peak Kangaroo route calendar. My money is it being a shortish venture. What we need is LHR-SYD non stop, when that happens I can see them being packed to the rafters.11 Dec 2016
In Australian Press, there is much hype about how it will create many new jobs, and Perth had better “gear up”, for this launch in hotels and services!
This is about profit, trying to do something out of the ordinary, but practically, people booking would not want to be sitting in a normal seat for 17-18 hrs in Economy. I still maintain, that even in Business, it is very important to get up, move around, for medical reasons and that of health. “Places to go to”, a bar, walk,sit stretch, many people do on long haul Aircraft already. For Ultra Long Haul, i would always prefer an A380, 773, but having flown on 5 Airlines Dreamliners, they are quite small and little room to accommodate this.
Emirates are also a big factor here. They have stalked Qantas for years, not like Etihad, that have co-operated with Virgin Australia, taking equity and building relationships. EK are bullies when it comes to every country they go into, they undercut the National Airlines, put huge increases in seat capacity, and really steal local Markets. Many Airlines have been reduced hugely as a result.
Air New Zealand almost became regional only, when EK have every major city in Australia, flights then going on to Auckland, and now a Direct service. Qantas has been reduced the same as Air New Zealand, to very little Internationally now, frankly i would not fly them, and i do not like their Business acumen.I dio not support this method of business.
Qantas once flew an no passenger non stop 747 Sydney – LHR (Alex you wrote the article for this), but they landed with 10 minutes of fuel remaining…Longreach was established by that.
I wonder how long it would be before EK push more of their aircraft into Perth?
If people do travel on to other Australian cities, it will not benefit the local State much anyway.
Customs clearance and baggage,Immigration would have to be done in Perth, very time consuming, awkward, and you certainly would not be hopping onto your connection in an hour! Current Regulations Federally would require this, and when you fly (I lived in Australia for several years and go annually), you have different State Customs authorities, varied regulations which maybe different to the State you fly onto, and Federal, more concerned with entry to the country. It is very bureaucratic and complicated Australia, Police, Health all having Federal, State, and then city, and local council departments for every aspect of life.
Les Paterson will tell you, as would Dame Edna, it is a National comical theme!
Alex, i think this has the same elements of the Thalys, in clearing customs and Immigration. The difference here is you entry point to Australia, IS Perth, and your Aircraft ceases there. It is not as though it will keep your luggage on and you get on and off. These are major obstacles, which have not been thought through.
If they plan for 2018, I am sure other Airlines will be more clever with their Dreamliners well before, but the Middle East Airlines have Australia ex Europe as their own now, sadly. KLM run their 789’s now not only to Middle East, but Canada, South Africa, and i am taking it from KUL in some days time, which will be great with a Business 1-2-1 Suite seat version they have. Long haul and medium haul, secondary Airports, are where the money will be made with the 789.
Well gone are the days of Lauda Airlines, KLM, LH, Swiss all flying down to Australia, and that one preferred flight with a stop. This is what people would prefer, some with a stopover. Virgin has been pushed our LHR-HKG-SYD, now ceasing at HKG. BA have reduced services and simply cannot offer in price or standard, what the Gulf Carriers can.Look how proud BA & Qantas were of their Kangaroo route?
Now almost gone, a tokenism left at the behest of EK.
Take up will be poor in my view, and economy will not be popular unless in a PE form as standard seating for such a journey.I do not think it will be very profitable either @ 1 flight a day, with The Gulf Carriers going in to Perth with larger Aircraft now also.
The Immigration, Customs and quarantine, Federal, State are very strict, vary, and would be very complicated, unless you stopped in Perth itself. WA as a State, would not as it currently stands, permit passengers to simply enter Australia, not have their baggage off loaded & you cleared there, or be adequately screened. Australia is one of the most strict in all of these aspects of travel, and keep their country very well for it.
All these issues must be considered.13 Dec 2016
MarcusGB The Australian Constitution specfically prescribes the division of powers between the Federal,State,and territorial goverments. Customs and Immigration laws are only governed by Federal laws all of which take precedence if ever in conflict with State laws. Qantas envisage passengers clearing customs and immigration in Perth which I suspect would be faster than 6-7 am process in Sydney or Melbourne. Once cleared you are a domestic passenger with no further proceedural requirements to the next domestic destination. Exactly the same as arriving internationally in LHR then flying to Manchester or in New York and then to Pittsburgh.
In my view the benefits of the Perth hub are for departing passengers who can connect quickly from the east coast and depart Perth out side the curfew that applies in Sydney. Leave Sydney at 1015 pm 5-6 hours later than QF 1 to DXB then connect in Perth to LHR (and later FCO CDG etc as hinted by QF) then a long sleep to europe.13 Dec 2016
Have to be a very long sleep on an 18 hour flight in 787 even with only one inch extra legroom.
An A380 can do the trip with an 85% load and plenty of room for bars, shower etc. 100 business class seats on upper deck and 400 economy plus seats (38″ pitch) on the lower deck.
85% load factor is good on long haul if they can fill it!13 Dec 2016
It will be interesting to see what happens when the five year deal between EK and QF comes to an end / up for renewal end of next year.
Qantas friends tell me that although the ‘DXB euro hub’ works well EK still uses their dominance to go against the spirit of the agreement. An example being the MEL originating DXB-LHR sector which typically suffers very poor loads. Both EK and QF should be busy doing what they can to fill that aircraft up. So QF was well and truly peeved when instead, EK launched a sixth daily flight an hour later that the MEL QF jet instead of pushing some customers onto that.
I often thing whether QATAR would now be a better fit for Qantas? When Qantas and EK started their joint venture QR wasn’t in OneWorld and had only 14 weekly services to Perth and Melbourne. Since then they’ve joined OneWorld, they now fly to Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide and will (apprently) start flights to Canberra. And of course they will still offer (almost) as many european/african connection possibilities in the middle east as EK does.13 Dec 2016
As you say, MarcusGB, 2018 is some time away and as we all know even a few months can be a long time in the aviation business.
Rivals have ample time to react.
History shows that indirect airlines always undercut nonstop carriers.13 Dec 2016
I’d love to see QF make a go of this, potentially good for the Perth economy, if QF thinks out the box, and it introduces a USP to the QF proposition.. A marketing trick that worked well for them.
It’s also brave of QF management to overfly their partner’s hub.
If, Butterbean the Wrestler was an airline, they would definitely be EK.
As for the Dreamliner and a 17 hour flight, forget it!!
The most disappointing aircraft (after all the hype) I’ve ever flown on. .
Regardless of aircraft type or class of travel, on a flight that long I’d expect the airline to encourage me to move about the cabin, and stand about, maybe at a bar, or whatever.
The Dreamliner would be a nightmare in Y , and actually a nightmare might be welcome, because at least you’d be sleeping.14 Dec 2016
The more I think about the less I can see this working.
I’ve wondered before why if Qantas can make the A380 work on QF9 MEL-DXB they don’t base an A330 there to complete the journey to LHR. They could turn the A380 around at DXB and send it back to MEL more quickly.
If most people are leaving QF9 for a destination that is not LHR at DXB then why would they want to fly on the 787 all the way to LHR only to start the back tracking that used to happen when there was the JSA? 18-9 hours on the 787 and then a transit of LHR complete with transfers and potentially T5 security would make sure people only did it once.
If EK simply ramp up the choices at MEL offering the A380 then I suspect it will be QF who lose out. CX, SQ, TG and QR are already offering the A350 out of MEL which is a superior proposition to the 787 and via their hubs there are nearly as many choices as EK offer. EY offer the A380 with again a good range of onward connections. I can’t see QF winning on this once the novelty of one try is past.14 Dec 2016