[Anonymous]

[Senator]

As most of the fellow audience on this forum, I travel my fair share around the world mostly in business class. I prefer Star Alliance and BA, but will for scheduling and pricing reasons travel with KLM and AF every now and then.

This week, KLM provided the only option for ARN-AMS return on a Saturday night. I really believe KLM is providing an inferior product in Europe Select with their 3-3 seating. Anyone know why KLM is now the only airline with this configuration? I could understand this if prices were much lower, but they are not?

[SimonRowberry]

Having spent 5 years of my life travelling BHX-AMS every other weekend in the early nineties, when you also had NLM City Hopper on short trips and KLM before the joke that was KLM UK, I would say that they are now almost THE classic example of a really first-class airline that are now little better than a low-cost carrier.

I fly them as rarely as possible these days but the last couple of times I found their full-fare product to be awful – food isn’t an issue on short flights but tight seating is. I’m only 5′ 8″ and I find their legroom intolerable.

Very, very sad indeed to see such a great carrier become what it is now. Could almost also say the same about SK.

[wenkaechia]

KLM Europe Select is not really business class as they say. However the prices are like business class so I don’t really see what they mean. Either they should call it economy plus or treat those who are paying the “business class fare” also with the “normal” business class seating (2-2)

[JackyLek]

KLM use this name so they may excuse the product type, but the fare is still Business Class, rip off in other words. Use to be a loyal customer with Flying Blue program and KLM, but after Air France took over KLM is has been a lot of changes, fewer miles – so many differents booking class fare for the miles, uppgrade only for the most expensive classes nearly a Business Class fare, who would like to use a lot of miles to uppgrade insteed of just paying the small differents. So many years a Platinum member – now I have change to Miles and More program and Star Alliance. The sad thing is I really like the Flying Dutchman program and enjoy the KLM service, once again damn it Air France !!!

[Hess963]

In my opinion the only business class experience with KLM Europe Select is the price. As most of you, flying with KL was not a very good experience in all those recent years. It is really a shame to offer a very tight seat pitch, a three abreast seating and inferior food quality.
A very good way of correcting one’s faulty decision was the recent reconfiguration of BA Club Europe seating.
What do you actually expect from an airline whose Internat.Business Class product is only a very uncomfortable angled lie flat. Why could not KLM just make it full flat anyway! Well this stays a mystery as it seems!

[seanyjmuclhr]

I would not fly KLM even if you paid me. Would far rather take two flights than fly on any route with them. Terrible value for money and a complete rip-off

[MarkCymru]

I’ve got a KLM Platinum for Life card and I still think the people are great; the new lounges at Schiphol are not bad; Amsterdam is the most convenient hub and; the chip card /iris system in Amsterdam makes crossing into Schengen really easy . But, short-haul business class is a joke. On the Bristol / Cardiff – Amsterdam flights, we have 2-3 in business (identical to economy). If business is full, it’s full of people upgraded — often with empty seats left in economy. Intercontinental business is worst-of-class seating too — there are no shells, a steep angle on the “lie flat” seats and if anyone wants to open the cupboard in the front of a 747, row 1 passengers have to bring their seats up to take off position. Air France’s short-haul hop (Bristol to Paris) is even worse but its business class product is quite good. And that is the choice for us: we’ve lost Lufthansa from Bristol so it’s AF or KL if you’re going East (and West too unless you go via Newark on the surprisingly-good Continental)

[Hess963]

If KLM really wants to be competitive in the market again, it has to reconsider its Bus. Class Concepts in regional und international routes. I now that in most part of UK or Europe in general there are certain routes who are monopolise due to lack of competition.
Than in this case fly Economy-within Europe it is still tolerable.

[MarcusUK]

Gold card holder with Flying Blue, & i switched to KLM for all my European flights 10 years ago.

On the LHR – AMS route last year, there were 10 rows of business customers taken on the 737-8/900’s. Now its no more than 4 rows! I agree that they offer few benefits, but then their economy service is excellent throughout Europe, on there new 737 fleet (7/8/900’s).
If you hold a Skyteam Gold card then you have all the perks, & the BEST new lounge at T4 recently opened. The best array of full dining in any lounge for any Airline in my view, with full meal services relative to the time of day.
Equally in Amsterdam the Intercontinental lounge (U use this for the UK), must be one of the largest, panoramic views, & excellent high quality foods, thoughtfully themed every couple of months.

Compared to the swinging cuts of BA, looking at the tired n space other EU Airlines, & despite AF taking KLM over, Its certainly a renewed fleet & excellent on board & FF perks for lounges etc.

But then again, purchasing an Economy ticket from £89 return LHR-AMS compared to £400, if you hold the card, the difference is little. Their economy is one of the best in Europe, but their Select, in the current times, offers little.
Customers appear to bethinking the same as the moving curtain gets pushed forwards more & more these days!

[RichardB]

I gave up on KLM when they started charging for advance reservation of the long haul economy exit row seats. Our travel policy will not pay for such things, so that almost guarantees no exit row seat. regardless of how early you turn up at the airport.
Instead i almost always fly lufthansa. The concentration of my flights got me a senator card and now I can reserve LH exit row seats (for free). There is no way I would work my my back up through the KLM card system to get the same level at KLM, it would be torture.
I used to be KLM platinum, LH silver. Now I have LH senator, KLM basic level card.

[VintageKrug]

klm appear to have a fare sale on right now:

http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/special_offers/flight_offers/index.htm#4

LHR-AMS rtn seems to be on special offer at £228 in EuropeSelect.

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