[cwoodward]

ITA did purchase full rights to the brand and websites etc for 90 million Euro.

This will also allow them to use the current livery, uniforms and all other brand identifications.
This according to several news reports and industry websites

[Tom Otley]

Yes, this one from Bloomberg today

Italy Says Ciao Once Again as New Alitalia Readies for Takeoff

“Even ITA’s own projections see years of struggle ahead before the carrier starts making money. According to a revised business plan presented to lawmakers this month, ITA no longer expects to report a profit by 2023, envisaging instead a loss before interest and tax of 33 million euros, before clawing its way into the black the following year.”

[Ekond222]

…Interesting times – If ITA has procured the Alitalia brand – and subsequently becomes Italy’s national flag carrier – the 90 million euro question becomes – Would it be appropriate to retain a white background on the tail of ITA’s passenger aircraft as per it’s launch livery?….just a thought….

[alainboy56]

@cwoodward

Why do you say that Italians would not be happy about FR acquiring the name/brand/logo?
OK, this is a nonsense discourse as they didn’t, and do I believe MOL stated quite clearly a month ago that he had no interest.

However, I think you would find that Italians and especially youngsters love FR as they have opened a new world to the backpacker travelling youth.
Precisely because they (Italians from all over Italy except Roma) have been used to these sullen Romanacci cabin crews all of their lives, for them Ryanair, even dare I say it, is a much better alternative. With cheap fares, generally almost always running on time, a fantastic array of destinations that they could not have even dreamed about with Alitalia – it’s a dream for them. As an example of this try Pisa, the main airport in Tuscany (Firenze’s short runway cannot take B737s), where I believe they have a network of more than 30 destinations, perhaps 37 or so.
Multiply this for other stations throughout Italy such as Bergamo, Venezia, Bologna, Naples, Brindisi and so on and so on, and you get the idea that young Italians would not have minded at all.
As for businessmen they hardly used AZ in any case, as they preferred the punctuality of LH through MUC and FRA, the cheerful cabin crew of BA through LHR, or the efficiency of KLM through AMS (all of these comments are pertaining to post pandemic). They avoided AZ like the plague for obvious well known reasons.

[alainboy56]

So the new company funded as always by Italian taxpayers has spent EUR90 million for a damaged brand and will not use it — Marvellous economics and just shows how reckless and wasteful one can be when one has a bottomless pot of taxpayers money

Moreover, can anyone out there answer me on this subject?
I understood that the AZ slots at LHR did not belong to them, as they were owned by Etihad (EY). Probably part of the investment take over they carried out.
I had also read that the EU had dictated that there had to be a complete break between the old AZ and the new ITA, and this meant no inheritance of AZ slots. So as I have just stated, for LHR, they did not belong to AZ.
So how are ITA flying to LHR today?
On whose slots?
Have they rented them from EY? If so yet more losses for the new start-up, as the going rates for ‘any available LHR slots’ are exorbitant
As EY are going through their own turmoil, not exactly disconnected from their disastrous investment in AZ, I’m sure they have no need for these slots anyway at present, and not for the foreseeable future.

Can anyone amongst my ‘forum friends’ out there shed some light on this matter?

[cwoodward]

ITA paid €90 million on Alitalia brand and will not use it as their aircrafts livery

ITA who purchased the Alitalia brand yesterday for €90 million today announced it will not use the brand on its aircraft. The airline will be now named as ITA Airways.
They will paint their aircraft in a mid blue with white engine cowls and white and blue tail with the Italian flag colours prominent on both the tail and cowls. With the ITA Airways branding prominent in white on the sides of the fuselage.

All rather clever I thought ?

[Frederic]

you need a serious up-date regarding FLORENCE PERETOLA AIRPORT… AIR FRANCE and VUELING among others are flying to FLO on A 319 !!! it can accomodates B 737 without problem

you made a wonderful propoganda style info on RYANAIR

1 user thanked author for this post.

anyonebutba

[cwoodward]

ITA currently has no landing slots at LHR
The 5 slots leased by AZ were recovered by EY for fear that they would be lost if not used.
It seems that ITA has three choices re LHR slots -ether approach EY to re-lease slots or shop to purchase a slot (likely to cost upwards of Twenty million pounds or look to lease from another airline -possible in these troubled times.

BTW alianboy56 According to Flightradair24 FLR can take some B737 types -3 are listed to land there today. ITA has an all Airbus fleet nether and FLR or PSA will prove an operational problem for the coming market share fight with Ryanair.
I rather doubt if Italians have much lasting love for FR as budget airline customers seldom have much loyalty .FR rather won the low end market by default and the market share could be difficult hold against any competent local competition. As ITA’s market share can only go one way it should prove interesting to watch

1 user thanked author for this post.

Frederic

[alainboy56]

Apologies to all – I forgot that FLR did have a ‘runway stretch’ recently.
However, it does not have the space on the apron or in the Terminal for mass tourism B738 flts as PSA does. (Even though that has become very cramped at times).

Yes, (are apologies due?), I unwittingly did give a rather good commercial for FR, not that I have used them for many years and probably will never again.
But they do provide a good cheap service to the Italian youth and that is wanted I was trying to demonstrate.
I also did not state that the youth ‘loved’ them, but they don’t despise them, as many people in UK do for example.
I reiterate, they provide cheap flts all over the place, and the youth lap it up. FR even have a flt from Pisa to Comiso near Ragusa (Com. Montalbano land).

There have also been other LCC successes in Italia too, eg VOLETEA, and EASYJET, they also have a big hold out of some stations like MXP for example.
If one were aware of the average salary of the working class (if they do have a job) in Italy, one would further understand why.

I do not believe AZ/ITA will be anymore a success than its predecessors, as its the same employees, under the same Unions, with the same mentality, and I surmise that within 5, maybe 10 years, there will yet further turmoil and necessary bail-outs from the Government.

Lastly could anyone confirm/refute that AZ/ITA were flying to LHR yesterday, and again if they were, using whose slots?

[cwoodward]

Re yesterday AZ/ITA to LTR.
I cant find them into LHR out of Rome yesterday but they may not a)have used their own code b) not flown out of Rome c) My information is not 100% coverage.
BTW the average monthly salary in Italy in 2020 was only slightly lower than that of France. As the cost of living in Italy is apparently some 15% lower then they seem to do rather well.
I have never flown with Volotea (it seems to be a Spanish airline) -They look cheap but there customer revues are horrible as it seems that they very prone to no notice cancellations and little customer service. Rather old fleet (about 20 years) of leased aircraft could be the cause.

1 user thanked author for this post.

alainboy56

[Inquisitive]

[postquote quote=1113612]

Totally agree. Need to remember that most likely Pope will travel in this airline, so a better name with Italy inside will the best choice.

Even a simple “Italian airlines” will be better than ITA.

[MarkivJ]

To quote the famous adage – Plus ca change m, plus ce la meme chose.

[transtraxman]

“ITA’s Bright New Livery Revealed”, (Simple Flying, 17-10-21)

ITA’s Bright New Livery Revealed

“ITA Plans SkyTeam Alliance Membership And Partnerships”, (Simple Flying, 17-10-21)

It seems that ITA is planning to just walk into SkyTeam. I would have thought that an adaptation period would be necessary, as it is in other alliances. In fact that happens when the airline already exists and has a history, just as Alaska Airlines had to before joining oneworld last spring. Or is it that the “nod” has already been given as ITA is just the continuation of Alitalia? That is something that should be cleared up. Might it not be a good idea to ask the airline members of Skyteam if they are willing to work with an unknown quantity of a start-up airline like ITA.

ITA Plans SkyTeam Alliance Membership And Partnerships

“New Start: ITA Spends €90m On Alitalia’s Branding To Stop Its Use”, (16-10-21)

New Start: ITA Spends €90m On Alitalia’s Branding To Stop Its Use

In fact ITA had better be running fast as it starts up. It has already lost the six flights from Sardinia o Rome and Milan to Volotea.
“Volotea Sticks With Sardinia With New Base After Winning Tender”, (Simple Flying 17-10-21)

Volotea Sticks With Sardinia With New Base After Winning Tender

[alainboy56]

AZ/ITA is flying FCO to LHR in fact at this very moment (19.26 UTC), AZ/ITA210 is taxying out for departure at FCO and is on the arrivals board at LHR.
So my question remains unanswered, how did they acquire slots at LHR, as those previously are owned by EY?

[cwoodward]

Hi alianboy56 answer to your question.
ITA Airlines has the use until 31st October 2021 of the slots previously leased by AZ from Etihad. Beyond that it seems likely that they will do a further deal with Etihad

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