[IanFromHKG]

According to my trusty iPad app on the EU passenger rights, compensation can be payable for delayed luggage, alhtough the airline may not be liable “when it has taken all reasonable measures to avoid the damage resulting from the delay of the baggage or when it was impossible to mtake such measures” – I think BA might struggle to prove their eligibility for that carve-out, unless it was Schiphol’s systems that caused the problem! Interestingly, it also says the amount payable is limited to EUR1,220 – so, double what you can get if you yourself are delayed!! Bizarre…

Anyway, CX seem to think we can get the bags tomorrow. Thank heavens there is nothing perishable inside…

[canucklad]

Bizarre indeed……

Put it down to the “old fashioned western value system”

Property seems to be more important than the person.

You can get 10+ years for robbing a bank but only 5 for grievous bodily harm LOL !!

And at least you now know that your memsahib ‘s luggage is in the safe hands of CX !!

Oh and tut tut Ian……Surely you wouldn’t consider transporting perishables ?

[IanFromHKG]

Not me. Memsahib. 🙂

And of course we wqoudn’t *dream* of breaking rules on importation of food (ahem!) but you have to remember, not everything is banned! Until HK banned importation of beef a couple of years ago, we regularly imported several fillets on each trip

[AnthonyDunn]

Ian_from_HKG – 26/06/2013 04:40 GMT

There is, of course, another interpretation to this which is that BA did indeed transfer the bags on time but that CX failed to deliver on their end of the bargain. Not that they would be expected to admit the point, as evidenced by their “BA’s failure” line at Chep Lap Kok…

I am not an expert on the Schipol baggage system (now, that would be really sad…) but I would imagine that there is going to be at least some “human interface” required at some point in the baggage transfer process once the bags have arrived off the inbound flight. And, short of being there on the ground or obtaining access to the records on the baggage movement system, recording what was where and when, there is no way of saying for sure.

[IanFromHKG]

Well, AnthonyDunn, that is of course possible. But I suspect it is unlikely. After all, CX only have one flight a day out of Amsterdam – I can’t help thinking that if they received the bag they would have managed to get it on the right plane!

[CXDiamond]

Ian, FWIW, I’ve always found Thai very accommodating at interlining bags to almost anyone and for that matter CX the same.

I despair when airlines will not do simple things that they can to make a premium passengers’ life easier. You would think they would be looking to retain the passenger rather than alienate them. I seem to remember that this was a measure introduced by BD which began its downward spiral as transfer passengers on separate tickets stopped using them because of the inconvenience. I would expect the same would happen to BA over time. In the current climate no airline can afford to lose premium passengers.

BKK might not be the worst place to have to claim bags and check in again but I can imagine the hassle it caused from my many arrivals and departures from there as a destination.

[internationalticketingagent]

BA will only through check bags if on same ticket….only exception on sep tickets is BA to any ONEWORLD carrier
thanks
other carriers will if asked through check your bags on sep tickets onto BA but if they bring you in late they will only accept they done so as a courtesy and therefore not accept any responsibility and then fare rules apply on your BA ticket
thanks

[pdtraveller]

@ 26/06/2013 17.19

I remember a time when BA was renowned for service excellence. They had an advertising strap line that went

” It’s the way we make you feel that makes us the World’s favourite airline ”

It is amazing how that strap line from 20 years ago is relevant today with the changing of just one word. I leave it to readers to choose which one

By making people feel special and valued they were also hugely profitable…at least by today’s standards.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ pdtraveller – 26/06/2013 19:09 GMT

[EDITED]

Without disagreeing with the substance of your point, just how large was the LCC proportion of the air travel market some 20 years ago? The race to the bottom encouraged by O’Blarney et al has had a host of consequences and changing the behaviour of the legacy carriers is one such. Most are now very much more cost and revenue aware than ever they were in the past so “nice to do” items at the margins have, in many instances, been sacrificed in the pursuit of bottom line cash retention/generation. Even if the lunatics are not yet fully in charge of the asylum, the bean-counters certainly are.

[TominScotland]

Hi all

Methinks that some of you are being a tad hasty is heaping blame on BA here without evidence, especially as what we are talking about is the interface between two handling agents (see above) and not the mainline airlines. I am not clear what difference the fact that CX only have one flight a day from AMS would make, Ian – after all, Menzies handle a plethora of airlines and are not going to be at exclusive beck and call to meet CX needs. My point is that the fault could lie with either (or, indeed both) handling agents so to translate this into another ‘BA don’t care” narrative is perhaps OTT???

In my experience, transfering baggage at Schipol is by no means risk free – I used to frequently transfer from KLM to Estonian Airlines there on an all-KLM codehare througn ticket and my baggage failed to follow me on at least three occasions, even though connection times were fine.

And to get back to topic about “Interlining baggage on two separate tickets” (which would be a fairer title for the post, by the way), the reality is that airlines are under no obligation to do so, as has been well established here. Most of us (cheekily) would try it on and see whether the local handling agents will play ball (Ian, in your case on your outbound at HKIA, this would have been HK Airport Services and not Thai). That then becomes part of the problem because this then creates expectations and when other airlines/ handling agents (correctly) do not play ball in this way, we get a hugely frustrated passenger. Many service providers prattle on about exceeding customer expectations – that is fine provided you are able to deliver consistently on the consequences which are that these exceeded expectations become the new bar for regular expectations. Deliver what it says on the tin and you don’t take the risk of an Angry Ian venting his spleen online when you follow well established rules and then gathering indignant soulmates to his cause.

[IanFromHKG]

In fairness, Tom, I expressed disappointment and dismay at not being able to through-check, not annoyance. I was annoyed because they lied to me about why (and because they re-assigned my seat without telling me). I also asked: “Am I being unreasonable for even asking, or am I right to feel aggrieved because BA refuse to do the same as TG (or, more pertinently, because they lied about their reason for doing so)?” so I wasn’t exactly trying to invite indignant soulmates to my cause – I was trying genuinely to seek other people’s views and specifically asked if others thought I was being unreasonable

As to blaming BA for the non-arrival of the memsahib’s bag – the only evidence we have as to what happened is what CX told the memsahib – that BA didn’t deliver the bag. You may argue that CX are simply trying to shift the blame elsewhere, but since they haven’t cavilled at the idea of delivering the bags to our home when it arrives – in other words they are not trying to dodge responsibilty for doing so – I am inclined to believe what we are told and that the bag simply wasn’t delivered to them on time. And as to agents – sorry, but a principal is responsible for the actions of his servant. If BA or CX choose to use handling agents, I am still entitled to regard any failings by those agents as being the responsibility of the airlines. So – you’re right, I can’t “prove” it one way or the other, but I am still blaming BA!

And finally, the “BA don’t care” narrative – well, as mentioned above, given that other carriers are prepared to interline to non-alliance carriers, and BA won’t, I think it is fair to say that “BA don’t care” about passengers in this respect in circumstances where other airlines accommodate their wishes. I don’t think that is an unreasonable view to hold. And I would add that I have had many experiences of interlining bags before, and this was genuinely the first time I have been refused – so I was surprised and taken aback by BA’s refusal to accommodate me, even though I acknowledge again (as I have above) that they were entitled to do so.

[TominScotland]

Ian, I may be labouring a point here but it seems to me that two separate issues have been conflated here. Firstly, there is the issue of interlining between carriers, whether within or external to an alliance. I think you will find that BA do indeed interline in most instances where there is a single ticket – travelling from Glasgow, this is a frequent experience for me and I have availed of this service both within oneworld (from BA to QF, CX) as well as beyond oneworld to the likes of Air Malta and EVA.

The second issue is that of separate tickets and I have less sympathy here. You COULD have purchased a combined Thai – BA ticket for your routing and paid considerably more, no doubt, for the privilege. I suspect that would have ensured through checking. You chose to cut your costs by buying two tickets and, IMHO, it is reasonable that you loose some of the benefits as a consequence. The fact that HAS chose to over-ride their obligations in HKIA is neither here nor there. Had the Thai flight been delayed and you missed your BA connection in BKK, they would have been imposing unnecessary costs on their principal and may not have been very popular as a result. Finally, to say that BA lied to you is, perhaps, a bit strong – give their folk the benefit of the doubt here in trying to soften the reality – that you actually did not have a leg to stand on with your two tickets!!

[IanFromHKG]

I won’t disagree with anything you say save for the last sentence – they DID lie to me – they specifically said that they could not check me through “because we don’t have a baggage agreement with Thai” (exact words used). And that’s just not true. TG’s own website says they have one, and in any case they must have had one because TG interlined onto BA (on the same tickets) on my outward flights.

BA *could* have said that as a matter of policy they don’t interline to non-alliance customers on separate tickets – which would have been both fair and accurate, and which I would still have found disappointing but would have accepted. Instead, however, they tried to present it as an impossibility rather than what is presumably a cost-saving measure.

I’m old-fashioned. I don’t mind being told I was trying to pull a fast one and I am not getting away with it. I *do* mind when someone to whom I am paying a considerable sum of money declines to accommodate my request (even one to which I am not strictly entitled) but blatantly lies about why. It is also a particularly stupid approach to take with a frequent flier who was able, in less than a minute, to prove that what they said was a lie. That doesn’t “soften the reality” at all – it turns me from someone who is disappointed into someone who is disappointed and angry.

[canucklad]

Like a bolt of lightning it occurred to me last night why BA didn’t interline your bag onto Thai ……..

It’s simply their corporate culture….

“Our way or no way”…..whilst Thai will put the customer’s needs first and accommodate you, BA will look at the bigger picture…..or rather smaller insular self protecting BA first attitude…..

BA want you to use their flights wholly to reach your destination, they are probably wondering why you had the audacity not to book them directly home to HK !

If you’re allowed to interline this time, it’s just going to encourage you to seek cheaper fares and doing it again….maybe a cheap BA flight to Mumbai and then onwards with KQ or whoever……

Look at my personal situation…with the demise of BD (pre Little Red) it became an absolute chore to transit onto my preferred carrier to Vancouver …pick bags up at T5, traipse to T3 !! BA through it’s pricing policy encouraged ( twisted arm ) me to choose them and ….

[TominScotland]

canucklad, me thinks that your imagination is running rings around reality this morning in seeing this as just a BA problem. Read back to Alex’s comments earlier in this post where the “our way or no way” carrier is, yes, Air Canada refusing to interline with (almost) Star partners, Luxair.

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