[DavidGrodentz]

The Marxist state comment has come up before. Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and others, are not Marxist states. Hong Kong has its other problems but it is not a Marxist state. The people here were not told to wear masks, they did it themselves (most of the rest of the world is now being told to do so)

The HK Government was slow initially in closing the borders (a week or two, not 4 months like the UK), it needed a push from the threat of a health worker strike to introduce restrictions. Thankfully, it has its act together. Residents returning face 14 days quarantine until at least 18 September. For non residents, it is still referred to as an indefinite ban

All of the countries above, and others not mentioned, have done a far better job at protecting their citizens. Personally, I don’t require statistical proof to believe that.

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TupeloKid, esselle, cwoodward

[cwoodward]

It is an unavoidable and sad fact that the UK, for whatever reason(s) has done and is still doing a dam poor job of fighting this virus and that many of the other countries mentioned up thread have done much much better by employing intelligent, well considered and effective approaches.
British measures have been rather like Dunkirk -a total shambles due to inadequate and ineffective planning with thousands of needless deaths resulting because the enemy was so underestimated. Do we never learn?

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ASK1945, DavidGrodentz, esselle

[Roa1]

I can’t understand the criticisms levelled at our gov’t, because what we are witnessing is unprecedented, all because of a sudden emerge of the virus from China, causing this devastating impact on billions of people not only in the UK, but throughout the world. There ain’t no easy answers until a vaccine is developed – until then, it’s trial and error, I guess. There is no easy way out and we are all in the same boat!

I remember in my air force days, there were always a plan for “doomsday” scenarios (like a thermonuclear attack or going to war), but believe you me, what we are witnessing is a situation that is far worse, with no end in sight, because there are no “standard operating procedure”s (SOP’s) hidden away in some “top secret” filing cabinet instructing us how to deal with this catastrophe.

My only hope is that there is no second wave!

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K1ngston

[ASK1945]

[postquote quote=1000156][/postquote]

Roa1

You are quite right about the unprecedented nature of what is happening – but that is why we elect what we hope are sensible politicians to help us through the quagmire.

However, this particular thread is just in relation to the quarantine measures being introduced tomorrow. They have not been thought through properly and so will be useless. I now understand, from what I read this morning, that the necessary legislation put through last week in a Statutory Instrument to Parliament, did not include Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I don’t know whether that is factual or just another false story.

But, if true, it is yet another disastrous mistake, from failure to pay due diligence to what they were doing. Of course we all make mistakes, but this is one policy that had much debate in advance, and they had plenty of time to rectify it.

If it is true, then this drives a “coach and horses” through any semblance of quarantine.

[rferguson]

[postquote quote=1000156][/postquote]

Some countries were much more geared up for COVID-19 than others, having witnessed the impact of SARS and essentially treated that outbreak as a dress rehearsal.

Following SARS Taiwan established a ‘central command centre for epidemics’. Singapore built an entirely new hospital specifically for it to be used for SARS like pandemics. In terms of international transmission both Singapore and Taiwan had closed their borders to arrivals from Mainland China be Feb 1. Taiwan had imposed health checks on those arriving from Wuhan BEFORE human to human transmission was even proven. Closing their borders had a huge economic impact on both countries. For both arrivals from China are their largest source of tourists and China is the biggest trading source of both. And let’s remember this was at a time when the WHO was declaring that countries had no need to close their borders. But these countries (among others) had rehearsed plans and policies in place and were able to act decisively.

SARS really was the dress rehearsal for COVID-19.

The linked article below written not long after SARS is eerie to read. ‘Preparing for the next pandemic’. It’s quite long but scroll down to the predicted impacts and it is basically like someone looking into a crystal ball at the time. Even the lack of ventilators is mentioned.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2005-07-01/preparing-next-pandemic

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TupeloKid, DavidGrodentz, MartynSinclair

[K1ngston]

For my 2 penneth, I think it is totally crazy that the UK is going to initiate any 14 day quarantine and agree with the views that they are doing so very much after the proverbial horse has bolted. Yes Asia could be highlighted as having done a better job than some of the European states but the reporting is less than convincing for instance anybody whos been to Cambodia and Vietnam will know there is no way that they have got away with zero deaths or that the virus just simply passed them by!

I cannot say whether the UK Government has done a good job or not, only time will tell on that, but I was of the opinion and still am that they were damned if they did and damned when they didnt! If they would have closed the borders there would have been uproar as there would have been a large contingent of people complaining about the economy and quite rightly so they chose to keep the borders open to stimulate the economy and of course we can see by the numbers that may have been the wrong decision again time will tell, I dont believe stating that with the borders open or closed we could have prevented the deaths that have occurred, the social make up of the country may have had some part in that too…

However I am clear and have been for some time there is no point in looking back “he said she said who said” is now not the time for this, we need to get the world back working again and its clear that some want to remain in their bubbles and this is perfectly acceptable, but there are others who want nay need to get back out there to compete and get the world working again, and for the UK Government to employ this quarantine rules are ridiculous and now not needed, and as for the argument that other will look at the UK as pariahs is also frankly nonsense as each country will be begging for the UK pound to help stimulate their economies, and I do not forsee anyone being forced to change their destination … pure press speculation.

Here in Thailand they will bite the hand off any UK citizen who will come and spend their money here, and thats the same for any country….

[philsquares]

Perhaps someone could point out to me what all of this has to do with the original topic and that was the legal challenge to the quarantine by BA, FR and U2? While I appreciate the comments, those comments are slowly going further and further off-topic and quite frankly they are only semi-truths. Please can we get back to the topic at hand or let’s close the thread and try again.

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FaroFlyer

[ASK1945]

philsquares

I disagree with you: if you look back through the posts above (in my view) you will see that the majority of posts have been around the introduction of quarantine measures today for entrants into the UK. The discussion was stimulated by a possible legal challenge by BA against this policy.

[canucklad]

Back on topic, it seems that the IAG test case has the backing of Easyjet, Ryanair and other big hitters in the industry . As one would expect….

Not sure what the point of the exercise is, one would hope that by the time that a judicial review has come and gone, the government will have realised its daft approach is exactly that and reversed it sooner rather than 2 months away , before the damage has become terminal

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BPP, Montysaurus, ASK1945

[AMcWhirter]

This topic and others will surely be raised on tonight’s LBC phone-in (June 8).

In addition to IAG Chief Executive Willie Walsh, I'm delighted to say we will also be joined by @LenMcCluskey in our special show on the future of UK Aviation. @LBC
8-10pm Monday evening.

Lots of time for your calls too. pic.twitter.com/8nVrz1mqp2

— Iain Dale (@IainDale) June 7, 2020

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=1000180]Not sure what the point of the exercise is, one would hope that by the time that a judicial review has come and gone, the government will have realised its daft approach is exactly that and reversed it sooner rather than 2 months away , before the damage has become terminal[/quote]

An urgent judicial review could be brought quite quickly. The review of the proroguing of parliament was heard, appealed to Supreme Court and judgement issued well within a month.

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canucklad, ASK1945

[Ah,Mr.Bond]

I’m all for quarantine, and not the mickey-mouse self quarantine they are proposing, but in a centre [eg in the copious amounts of empty hotels along LHRs Bath road]…. I’m all for this…. BUT – at start of lockdown, not 3 months in and 40K deaths when other countries are trying to open up. This token gesture is just admitting they have “left it too late but will try anyway”. They would have created less political damage it they just hadn’t bothered at all. No fan of Walsh, but I hope they win.

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K1ngston, BPP, MartynSinclair, canucklad

[ASK1945]

[postquote quote=1000189][/postquote]

If they had applied to the court for a “stay” pending a full hearing, that could have been done on Friday, and the quarantine would not have proceeded today.

[MartynSinclair]

Kate Burley (Sky News) termed the quarantine rules as having more holes than a strong vest… how very true..

But 2 interesting points were raised:

1. Are airlines accepting passengers for trips to the UK of less than 14 days. i.e. is travel back to the airport after say 5 days allowed?

2. She mentioned that the Dublin exemption did not apply to passengers who had arrived into Dublin from another country less than 14 days previously. Is the exemption for Dublin transit passengers only or anyone routing into Dublin from perhaps the USA/Middle East and enter Ireland (not just transit) for a couple of days.

[ASK1945]

[postquote quote=1000224][/postquote]

Regarding Dublin, what’s to stop someone arriving there getting the train to Belfast and then entering Great Britain from there without quarantine?

[Author]

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