IAG Capital Markets Day 2016

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This topic contains 45 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by  FDOS_UK 10 Mar 2018
at 17:16

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  • transtraxman

    “IAG plans long haul low cost from Barcelona and mulls a new dedicated brand.”


    Today CAPA has come up with a proposal by IAG to set up a long-distance low-cost operation to challenge other new operators in the market – perhaps Norwegian is the main potential competitor.

    Whether this has been thought through or not we do not know. As the article suggests it is a knee-jerk reaction to Norwegian´s proposal to set up a long-distance operation from Barcelona.
    This is IAG territory 100% with Vueling having its headquarters in the Mediterranean city. Thus any upstart from outside would provoke a reaction from the country (Spain) and the second city (Barcelona)that wishes to maintain its influence.
    Vueling is based in Barce. but not exclusively since it has operations based in other countries. However, is Vueling the vehicle to provide a long-haul low-cost operation?
    The competition in London is too great. The other operators in IAG are maybe not well placed. If we look at the Oneworld alliance one doubts that any partner airline would satisfy IAG because of the very loose alliance which is oneworld.

    It comes down to a new operation. “Open Skies” seems to be out of the calling since its focus is more up-market, though one doubts if it has any focus at all or if it is just up a cul-de-sac.

    Take over an airline. That is possibible to obtain the operator´s certificate. CORSAIR (of France) could be a proposition. It flies to France´s overseas departments and other francophone territories long-distance. The extension of its operations to Barcelona would be no big problem.

    On the other hand if we want to look at long-haul operations already in existence then we also have MERIDIANA (based in Sardinia). This airline has recently been taken over to the 49% maximum allowed (by the EU) by Qatar airlines. Qatar in turn has a 20% stake in IAG.
    What Qatar´s objectives are cannot be easily ascertained. However, there would be a logic for MERIDIANA to run the low cost long-distance operation from Barcelona to compliment its existing operations from Italy (especially but not exclusively from Milan) – an excellent fit and no problem for establishment and expansion. Would this be an IAG airline (in exchange for what for Qatar) or would it be a joint venture between IAG and Qatar? The possibilities are boundless.

    I wait for comments, informed and so on. Plus the days ahead present interesting developments.


    Great stuff Transtaxman. Maybe you could put it in a separate thread as it’s pretty notable news and kinda exciting.

    The Lion

    Mark Caswell

    An update on what was the orginal thrust of this thread:

    British Airways releases images of ten-across B777s




    A fairly widespread trend, not just BA (Gatwick). BA joins a 10 across club of
    Air Canada
    Air France
    Air New Zealand
    American Airlines
    All Nippon Airlines
    Austrian Airlines
    China Southern
    Jet Airways
    Philippine Airlines

    with Cathay having announced plans for 10 across. If Austrian have 10 across, how long before the rest of the LH group follow suit? I have experienced 10 across with KLM and Emirates and, actually, it is not too bad (and I no wafer!!).


    I disagree about 10 across ‘not being too bad’, it totally depends on who is in the seat next to you.

    The problem is not the seat width at waist level (unless you get a morbidly obese person spilling over into your seat), but is a shoulder level.

    If you get two guys of a similar height, who have a normal shoulder width, then your flight is going to be unpleasant, end of.

    The 787 appears worse, but I have not subjected myself to that exercise in personal self flagellation.


    I recall BA’s original LGW fleet of 10 abreast on the 777.
    At the time I was 5’10” & 10 stone, my travelling partner a little taller & the same weight. The outbound was awful, the inbound was only bearable as the pair of us had 3 seats to ourselves.
    Where I can actively avoid 10 abreast 777s I do.


    I’ll agree with FDOS and Openfly, simply put it shows complete and utter contempt by full fare airlines.
    And I’m happy to bore you all again with having a pop at Air Canada !!

    For those infrequent not in the know travellers , treating themselves to a trip to visit relatives or whatever, choosing a respected full fare airline like Air Canada would appear to be good value for money . Perception is quality and comfort, some older people might even re-call the proud boast ……Flights so good , you won’t want to get off!!

    In actual fact, AC’s 777’s are more packed than the worst, nastiest charter airlines of the past.

    Choosing LCC’s like Westjet or Air Transat are definitely cheaper and more comfortable ….

    Again……Utterly contemptable behaviour by Air Canada !!. And by extension, all those airlines, now including BA, who disregard Boeing’s and Airbuses recommended layouts to treat us like cash cows and so, by association cattle!!


    There are a couple of things that came to mind when I saw the images of the new seats:

    1.Padding-these seats look very thin, which may mean they have less padding.
    2.Arm rests-do they fold up in between the seats, unlike the current seats (to make it easier to get out of your seat).
    3-Pitch?-I am guessing it now less than before, just like the current short haul seats.

    Overall, these seats could be the long haul equivalent of the short haul ones, less space and maybe less comfortable but for the same or increased price.


    1: Padding – don’t know.
    2: Arm rest – BA have said in part of their PR guff that they do go all the way up & not get in the way anymore.
    3: Seat pitch – it has not been reduced.

    Full press release here

    Alex McWhirter

    with Cathay having announced plans for 10 across. If Austrian have 10 across, how long before the rest of the LH group follow suit? I have experienced 10 across with KLM and Emirates and, actually, it is not too bad (and I no wafer!!).

    Tom – Small correction. Swiss recently introduced B777-300ERs into service and they arrived from Boeing with 10-across configurations.

    Swiss unveils details of forthcoming B777-300ER

    JAL maintains 3-3-3 configuration on some of its B777s including the B777-300ERs which operate to London. Remember it’s the only airline to have a 2-4-2 layout on its B787s which of course was the original configuration recommended by Boeing.

    Expect Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines to go 10-across when their B777-9s are delivered in a few years time. Boeing has specifically designed this aircraft for 10-across in economy.

    Will Singapore Airlines join the ten-across club?


    We have the 11 across in the A380 to look forward to – if anyone buys it?


    What a lot of people forget is, it’s not just the reduced seat size and its accompanying discomfort, it’s also the reduced width of the aisle.

    When you take both into account, it pretty much ensures that the passenger is almost surreptitiously fixed to their seat. Now on a 12.5 hour flight from Europe to Hong Kong that simply isn’t acceptable, never mind AC’s YYZ-HKG flights.

    More people queuing for less per head toilets in cramped aisles , resulting in strangers moving into your personal seat space to allow others to pass. And I’ve not mentioned the impact on crew and service trolleys yet.

    Livestock welfare in regards to transport is better regulated.


    Notes to editors:
    · The World Traveller Plus cabin in the fleet’s three class 777s will be doubled from 24 to 52 seats, while the Club World cabin will be reduced from 40 to 32 seats.
    · The World Traveller cabin in the fleet’s four class 777s will see an additional 12 seats added.
    · Heathrow’s Boeing 777 fleet will be fitted with the new World Traveller seat from autumn 2019.

    Waiting to see the reaction at LGW before retrofitting the LHR fleet?


    Canucklad – my initial thought was exactly as you describe – how the Hell do crew get trolleys down the aisles? You better make sure your arms and legs are secure inside the seat width during the service! As I assume the trolley stowages in the galleys are Boeing standard, they won’t/can’t be narrower.

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