[AnthonyDunn]

Something that I “just don’t get” – having availed of the hyper-bargain 25 pence each way fare Marylebone-Brum Moor Street courtesy of Chiltern Trains – is why services between London and Brumingham are not switched onto the existing lines via Banbury and Leamington Spa which very clearly have considerable unused capacity.

We could electrify almost the entire UK rail network and tackle the capacity constraint into/out of Brum New Street and have bucketfuls of change left over from the cost of HS2…

[transtraxman]

The HS2 is becoming a steamroller gravy train for those who have invested so much time, effort and personal prestige into the project. It is becoming one of those projects “too big to fail”, “too far down the line to stop”. Though the idea of a faster and easier rail transport is a good one, this HS2 project is tremendously flawed.

It is true the WCML from Rugby to Euston is becoming saturated. It is true the MML needs to be upgraded from St. Pancras to Yorkshire. It is true the line from East Midlands Parkway to Leeds needs a lot of new construction. It is also true that most of HS2, especially in stage 2, is not justifiable.

-The Birmingham through station is out in the wilds miles from anywhere – why not use the airport station?
-What justification is there for the branch to Manchester and Wigan? Absolutely none for most of its length which some curve straightening and fourtracking could solve. The only part necessary is from Manchester airport to Piccadilly. The airport station is not even at the airport but a considerable distance away.
-The line from Birmingham to East Midlands is an improvement but really justifiable?
-The stretch to Leeds, though more necessary than others, does not even enter Nottingham nor Sheffield but stops out in the boondocks.

I could go on but will limit this to say that we should demand comparative figures for parallel stretches of the new HS2 and the cost of upgrading the classic lines to near HS standards. Then we would see whether parts are necessary or viable or not. I suspect the “powers that be” are too afraid to provide that information and might even doctor it to suit their agenda.

The real benefits for Scotland would be new construction from Oxenholme to Glasgow on one side while from Newcastle to Edinburgh on the other. Then noticeable speed gains would be seen.
At the moment HS2 gives the impression of being built just for speed. With so few stops the passengers seem to be an inconvenience. Whatever is built should be for the users – the paymasters – the passengers. Build for the benefit of the greater good for the greater number, not just a few.

[BigDog.]

The journey time saving from HS2 is only part of the rationale.

As transtraxman states many lines are becoming saturated with increase rail usage, a situation destined to deteriorate further.

One of major issues with the current network is its multi-utilization having to mix very slow cargo with slow stopper local/cross-country with medium provincial and fast inter-city. Having such a variety does not allow for optimal utilization. Just like the performance of Ferrari or McLaren would be negated by sharing a part of a track with a saloon.

HS2 would remove HS traffic from the existing system allowing for far more use by slower traffic, especially cargo. Removing a swathe of cargo from road to rail would be a huge benefit both to the car user and the eco system.

So HS2 is far more than merely reducing times, it is about improving the rail network overall to increase usage and also reducing road cargo.

The issue I see is what type of HS – the current version or build for the future > 500kph ones currently being tested in Japan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10100045/Riding-Japans-maglev-super-floating-bullet-train.html

[jetplane]

Had the misfortune to drive through the toll last week, buffeting would be an understatement, also the only place to stop serves Costa S H I T E…. Sergio is choking on his £96m

[canucklad]

Transtraxman….some excellent points on this topic and also on the LHR topic
BigDog …also excellent points about capacity and you’re last point about Japan sums up what is wrong…..

If we are going to do it, let’s spend the money and do it right…
Let’s not spend at present figures £33 billion to build something that will be out of date the moment it goes live!

[Author]

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