[TominScotland]

Two evenings, two flights

Wednesday: LHR – GLA with BA. Fare in Economy £75 or so. Short delay boarding, apologies from the gate staff and the First Officer, further delay on arrival due to airbridge issues, three apologies from the flight deck…… Not just rote but with consideration and humour!!

Thursday: GLA – DUB with FR. Fare £12.99. 60 minute delay or so due to late arrival of inbound aircraft. Nothing at the gate, no reference to the delay on board – in fact, no communication from the flight deck at all.

Do apologies matter? My own view is that they area matter of courtesy but don’t actually make up for anything…

Thoughts on a lovely Sunday morning in Dublin?

[BugAdvisor]

You pays your money and you takes your choice!

3 users thanked author for this post.

EasternPedlar, IanFromHKG, cwoodward

[Bath_VIP]

Ryanair have really missed a trick here!

Given how much they love to unbundle the fare and get you to pay for each bit separately, they should be selling apologies separately as well.

How about – ?

£0 – an invitation to have sex and travel
£2 – a standard text to your mobile
£5 – an email written by ChatGPT
£10 – a personal apology from the cabin crew as you disembark
£50 – a hand written letter from the captain
£500 – 10 rounds with Michael O’Leary

Let the market answer the question!

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EasternPedlar, CathayLoyalist2, BugAdvisor

[FDOS]

How much is an apology worth?

£62, it would seem.

2 users thanked author for this post.

IanFromHKG, BugAdvisor

[GivingupBA]

Tom, apologies really matter to me, at least. They make me feel a lot better, and I take it as recognition by them that there was a problem, that it matters to them, and that they know it matters to me. (And as they say it costs nothing).

4 users thanked author for this post.

huey, IanFromHKG, LuganoPirate, Johnnyg

[LuganoPirate]

I always appreciate an apology, but even more, I appreciate it when the flight deck informs what’s going on and regularly updates us on what is happening. This I think, makes the delay easier to bear.

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FaroFlyer, IanFromHKG, Jacob, ASK1945

[IanFromHKG]

[quote quote=1357045]Thoughts on a lovely Sunday morning in Dublin?[/quote]

Well I can’t do that, but I can give thoughts on a lovely Wednesday afternoon in Phuket!

Apologies are so simple and easy, as is courtesy. As my father used to say: “courtesy requires no capital but pays great dividends”. We all know there are times when an apology isn’t merited or timely (we had a go-around on the flight into HKG last week and I had no problem with the pilot waiting for a while before apologising, I think he was probably busy!); and in some cases it can be dangerous (admitting liability). That is why some more advanced jurisdictions have introduced statutory protection for apologisers meaning an apology doesn’t translate into liability (eg the Hong Kong Apology Ordinance, quite a good discussion of which can be found at https://ccpl.law.hku.hk/content/uploads/2018/05/Carroll%20Apology%20Ordinance%20Cap.631%20HKU%20talk%2016%20May%202018%20FINAL.pdf)

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cwoodward

[MarcusGB]

Perhaps being given information as events occur is just as important, along with the apology?

I had a long haul series of flights from Far East Biz on SQ in February 23, then KLM from AMS to LHR to connect to booked through.
There ended up a flight delay of 2.5 hrs, due to LHR unable to cope with fog.
Over 2 hours of this was sat on the 738 in Biz, but the two female pilots were wonderful in conveying why, when and how they were trying to tackle the issues.
The Captain came out of the cockpit, stood at the Front centre of the cabin, and spoke to all the passengers, exactly what she knew, and how she and KLM was trying to tackle it. This happened several times, and 2 of them, she walked down every aisle to the back, and answered questions, even though many were the same.
She apologised, and at one point gave people the opportunity to leave the aircraft if they just had a day return flight or would miss meetings, and London arrangements, to leave, and she would ensure a full refund of tickets.

The crew had also communicated to Ground services, and extra catering, water and juices and snacks were brought on board.

There have been many times KLM have this standardised approach, of Pilots coming out,into the cabin, communicating on the speaker, looking at everyone, and then answering any questions. They are trained to do this.
I get fed up of Airlines and crews who hide behind a curtain stating delays, blaming other parties, and not answering any questions or offering drinks to the often full aircraft.

I find KLM honest, open, communicative, personalised, going beyond most other Airlines.

I have also received compensation there n then, for awful meals on long haul flights, or repeat foods on vegetarian dishes on several meal services, where the Cabin Senior Purser (Manager on KLM), agree with you. They find alternatives, come back with an ipad, and informed me they have already sent a credit of Euros 150 to my email, and Platinum FBlue account.
They agreed with me, and stated it was not their standard, and was not acceptable to them, nor for me.
They simply anticipate and act before, and you never have to ask in many circumstances.

I have great respect to KLM for their customer Service, but the giving of clear information along with on the spot apologies, is simply an excellence ever present on KLM. There are few delays due to the Airline, so i find them very reliable.
You can see KLM crews getting concerned if they cannot close the doors and be ready to depart, Worldwide, about 15- 10 minutes prior to departures, especially short turn arounds in Europe!

Part of the Dutch value system also, as the Trains apologise and put up delays of 3 minutes of more also!

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GivingupBA, fatbear

[cwoodward]

I have always believed KLM to be all the things that you mention MGB -most of the time

[GivingupBA]

[postquote quote=1357206]

You are right. My BA flight to LHR once pulled away from the gate at AMS then stopped dead. The pilot announced we had a hydraulic issue and that we would not be moving on yet. It all took really ages and eventually people catching connections to the USA had to be rebooked onto later flights by cabin crew. BUT the point is that the captain gave us frequent updates from up front, and this very much mollified and satisfied people. People were OK with the whole thing because of this.

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MarcusGB, cwoodward

[ASK1945]

I was in business for over 50 years until retirement 6 years ago.

I learnt very early on how to deal with complaints or problems – it really is quite straightforward:

1. Apologise – but with the correct words, without admission of liability: “I am really sorry to learn that you found our service unsatisfactory”.
2. The facts, as recorded by us.
3. Action, ie what we were going to do about this, if anything.

We didn’t need legislation to cover our backs on this and rarely did we need further correspondence on the matter. It seems to me, having read the above, that KLM follow these clear rules.

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MarcusGB

[huey]

When nobody bothers to tell the pax why we’re still on the ground and state a time estimate, I feel insulted. “Formal apology” nice but not required, just acknowledge that we’re all sitting back here on your airplane needing to be somewhere at a certain time.

Letters responding to a complaint with generic apologies are a waste of time and energy, especially if they offer a lame excuse having little to do with the issue. If the writer addresses the problem, that’s appreciated. If the letter offers some miles or points, that’s very much appreciated.

2 users thanked author for this post.

GivingupBA, ASK1945

[Nick Pike]

Slightly off topic, but hopefully still relevant, it reminds of the time many years ago when I was sitting on a BA777 awaiting departure from LHR to Beijing. There was a problem at the rear, outside. It transpired that a baggage handler had somehow got stuck between the conveyor and the aircraft and was badly injured. LHR fire service were quickly in attendance as was the air ambulance. They tried to free him without cutting into the aircraft skin which was itself dangerous to the injured worker – indeed at one stage the captain asked all passengers to walk to the front of the aircraft to lift weight from the tail-but to no avail and the aircraft was declared unserviceable. BA found a spare within an hour and we took off about two hours late, with the same crew.

Two of the crew had assisted with immediate first aid and were upset at what they had seen, but performed impeccably en route. When I returned to the UK two weeks later I wrote to customer service to say that I had appreciated the crew’s efforts in what was clearly a very distressing situation for all involved, and i wanted to pass on my good wishes to them.

Customer Services rang me a few days later to say that they had my letter but were not sure what I wanted them to do. I said that i just wanted my thanks passed on. “Oh, so you don’t want compensation then?” was the response.

The thought of compensation- not quite sure what for- had never entered my head. But that seemed to be all the rep was concerned about. So i said no.

Whether the crew got my thanks I shall never know.

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esselle, AlanOrton1

[TominScotland]

BA107 to Dubai last Wednesday. The flight showed an hour delay fairly early on. We boarded accordingly and then nothing happened once all passengers were aboard. There had been issues with internal lighting (sorted) but the paperwork proved far more challenging and, eventually, required CAA signoff!! All this was relayed to us by a very apologetic Captain and First Officer on a regular basis.

About an hour after boarding, some of us realised that it might be in our (financial) interests if the delay continued another hour or so. The word soon spread throughout the plane and the mood changed significantly, with folk willing the delay to extend.

In the event, we landed 3 hours 14 minutes late. I certainly got my claim in and will be interested to see how long it will take BA to pay. KLM had the money in my account for a similar delay in just 6 days….

[AlanOrton1]

Tom, if your experience with BA and EC261 mirrors mine you’ll be in for a long wait!
Long story short, 3+ hour delay on flight 1 Jan. Claim filed 2 Jan. Zero correspondence from BA except auto acknowledgement. Fast forward, now in CEDR holding pattern, may get resolved in next week or two if BA don’t challenge
CEDR advised they were dealing with significant numbers of claims relating to BA….

[Author]

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