[canucklad]

[quote quote=949673]to accommodate what you are asking would require hotels to change their staffing levels during those times, increasing their costs, which would of course then trickle down to the price and increased pricing.[/quote]

Would these be those same big chain hotels operating on a localised wage structure model, paying minimum wages or zero hour contracts yet charging premium rates based on an assumption that those staying there are on high westernised bonus driven premium salaries ?

[AFlyingDutchman]

[quote quote=949686]

AFlyingDutchman wrote:

to accommodate what you are asking would require hotels to change their staffing levels during those times, increasing their costs, which would of course then trickle down to the price and increased pricing.

Would these be those same big chain hotels operating on a localised wage structure model, paying minimum wages or zero hour contracts yet charging premium rates based on an assumption that those staying there are on high westernised bonus driven premium salaries ?[/quote]

Unlike other industries I guess? The vast majority of hotels are locally owned, and operate under the local conditions, as numerous other businesses in these locations. so not really sure what your point is? What does this have to do Check in Time?

[canucklad]

You were saying that costs would need to rise if IanFromHKG concept of Dynamic timing was introduced. Primarily because of the need to increase labour costs , remembering that those who work in the hospitality trade are notoriously low paid , relying on our tips and goodwill to subsidise their meagre income! .

I’m stating that there is a direct correlation between the maintenance of a hotel room and its profit margin, even considering other costs like rates, taxes , heating air-conditioning etc.
Sticking to our discussion the huge disparity between what hotels pay their chambermaids to clean a room (10 minutes per room ) and what they charge us , especially in places like India were labour costs are minimal would suggest that dynamic timing isn’t much to do with costs but more to do with “Why bother” approach to creating a workable logistical model

A) Do nothing and the cash cow continues
B) Do something that would benefit us and that means increased effort through coordination and management .

Option A is always going to triumph

[AFlyingDutchman]

@canucklad, I am in the Hotel Industry, and while much of what you say is true, and can be attributed to a number of industries in the third world, I can assure you wages in the west are by no means as low as you might think in my industry. True, in some parts of the world payroll is the least of our worries. But usually in these parts of the world you are hit with higher costs on products, importation being 300% in some places, the construction of the hotel in many more challenging parts of the world can run twice to three times as costly as in more developed places, Utilities are often higher as the infrastructure is poorer. In numerous locations it’s not just salaries that are provided but housing and transport which certainly add to the cost. And in this day and age, the security of a property is often much higher cost. But this is not solely in the hospitality industry. As you mentioned India, I am sure factory workers earn a local wage while the manager’s earn higher and yet we in the west will still pay a high price for the Polo shirt produced. Why should you not expect that Polo to be priced lower as its produced in India and not the USA? Salaries are based on the local pay scale, we in hospitality do not pay below the local scale for the particular job, with actually the exception being in the USA where there is a two tier minimum wage due to the expectation of tips in certain roles (mainly waitors and door men). On a more jovial note, I’m not sure where you get the idea that chamber maids have 10 mins to clean a room, but in my hotel that is unheard of, my team have 30 mins per room. I would hate to see the standard of a room that is cleaned in 10 minutes!

As far as the idea of dynamic pricing, it is interesting, but would be a challenge. For sure a different way of thinking, and something our yielding gurus could probably work on!

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[TominScotland]

Interesting points, AFlyingDutchman – I take it you are not based in the UK. I recognise that while pay in hotels is reasonable (not more) in many European countries, in the UK it is at or very close to the bottom of the pile. The industry average is £21,000 across all work areas, Duty Managers are paid on average £18,000, Hotel Managers average £25,000, General Managers about £38,000, Receptionists just over £16,000 and housekeeping staff, the focus of this discussion, just £12,000. None of these are really in the tipping zone although housekeeping staff may benefit unless others get their hands on the cash first!! This compares to a national average for full-time workers of just over £35,000.

I think this points to a fairly bleak picture and in part,accounts for the acute recruitment problems faced by the sector and its dependence on migrant workers who may or may not be with us after 31 October!!

[AFlyingDutchman]

Hi @TominScotland, I fully agree the Hospitality industry and the travel industry in general is reknown for being at the lower end of the pay scale. That said, the salaries you say are average in the UK take into account the entire UK and all levels of hotels and do not reflect the reality of the salary levels in larger, city center hotels, and certainly not those of Major cities such as London, Manchester, Glasgow, etc. For sure, the industry as a whole suffers from this perception, as well as the long hours, hard work, demading clinetele, etc., which often paints a rather not-sexy career path. But this discussion is about Checkin Times, not the salaries of hotel workers, because I agree, they are low in a number of parts of the world, but so true in other industries as well. All I was saying is to change the system of check in time due to the horrible arrival times of some long haul flights in certain cities would be a very big challenge, one that would incur substantial cost, not simply because of Housekeeping, but all areas of the operation. I often am in London, and see in numerous of our hotels many people sitting in the lobbies waiting to check in. Undoubtedly these folks have arrived off of US flights or Asian flights that have landed early morning. Check in is typically at 14h00, check out at 12h00 Noon usually to allow that two hour grace period to get rooms ready. Obviously, if a room is vacated earlier, the room is realeased, and early arrivals have a chance to receive their room, but the only way to guarantee a room for a very early arrival is to book it for the night before. I personally would be very open to exploring a more dynamic pricing system for certain destinations, and perhaps for a specific % of room inventory as it could work. London is the city I know best in the UK, and I can tell you, numerous of our managers there are very concerned about the unknown vis-a-vis immigrant workers as they do form the back bone of the service industry in London, so fully agree with you that this is a major concern. More the concern of the not knowing so not being able to be proactive.

[IanFromHKG]

[quote quote=949933]I often am in London, and see in numerous of our hotels many people sitting in the lobbies waiting to check in. Undoubtedly these folks have arrived off of US flights or Asian flights that have landed early morning. Check in is typically at 14h00, check out at 12h00 Noon usually to allow that two hour grace period to get rooms ready. … London is the city I know best in the UK, and I can tell you, numerous of our managers there are very concerned about the unknown vis-a-vis immigrant workers as they do form the back bone of the service industry in London, so fully agree with you that this is a major concern.[/quote]

AFD, surely this is a situation where dynamic timing would be helpful and could result in LOWER costs? Instead of a large taskforce having to prepare a large number of rooms in a single very small window, you could spread the work over a longer period with a smaller overall workforce (but still within the limits of a normal shift), spread demands on laundry services etc over a longer period, and so forth?

I am not trying to suggest that there wouldn’t be challenges, but I personally think it is always better to look at challenges as opportunities. You say that even with a static timing policy you have customers queueing to get in. Perhaps you are able to achieve 100% occupancy without really trying. But if not, imagine how much more popular your hotels would be if you offered guests the opportunity to check in at a time that matches their flight?? And imagine how much happier your customers would be, and how much more likely they are to give you repeat business, and recommend your hotels to their friends and colleagues…

I recognise that management time, training and updating systems and booking engines would be a significant up-front cost. However, although I admit I am no expert, I would be astonished if the ongoing costs were any higher, and would rather expect that if properly implemented they would be lower. I would also have thought that a modest premium would be acceptable to most customers. This could be revenue-positive, cost-beneficial and a marketing boon. But if you think it belongs in the “too hard” box, I will sit back and wait until one of your competitors cottons on…

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