[SimonS1]

I have no idea.

All I am aware of is what is stated on Heathrow website which is that “the current health screening measures at UK airports are decided by the Government, acting on evidence and recommendations from health experts. We are implementing all processes which the Government deems adequate. This does not include temperature testing at airports as they are not seen to be effective. Were this to change, we would move quickly to ensure that new processes are implemented”.

I am not party to or in possession of any factual information that would enable me to determine to what extent your theory is correct, only that I believe if it was the case some action would have been taken.

I tend not to take media reports so seriously, they are generally written by journalists trying to sell newspapers etc and without much real knowledge of the subject at hand, like that laughable article you posted from the DM blathering on about 10 flights in an hour from New York.

What I do believe is that steps should be taken to open travel up as soon as possible. Individuals can then make a personal decision whether to travel or stay at home.

[PeterCoultas]

With a biological background involving US NIH grants for work on viral infectivity I cannot understand why repatriation of UK nationals from areas with high numbers of infected individuals into the UK was allowed and has continued since the start of the pandemic without any checks or subsequent (if needed) proper quarantine. That our per capita infection and death rates are so high is no surprise. That the nonsense continues is depressing considering we know so much more than we did during black death, cholera and Spanish Flu. One factor (there are several) that increases transmission is the density of population. This has massively increased, globally and by concentration in cities rather than spread countrywide. A bigger factor in the current pandemic seems to be the excessive denseness of our political leaders.

3 users thanked author for this post.

MarcusGB, cwoodward, JETHROTULL55

[capetonianm]

May I throw something else into the brew. It is events such as this that causs me to take the pontifications of the ‘experts’ and the stats with a massive pinch of salt.

There are plenty of examples of useless meaningless statistics, for example for days now, Zimbabwe has published 44 cases and 4 deaths.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/16/coding-led-lockdown-totally-unreliable-buggy-mess-say-experts/

Coding that led to lockdown was ‘totally unreliable’ and a ‘buggy mess’, say experts

The code, written by Professor Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London, was impossible to read, scientists claim.

The Covid-19 modelling that sent Britain into lockdown, shutting the economy and leaving millions unemployed, has been slammed by a series of experts.

Professor Neil Ferguson’s computer coding was derided as “totally unreliable” by leading figures, who warned it was “something you wouldn’t stake your life on”.

The model, credited with forcing the Government to make a U-turn and introduce a nationwide lockdown, is a “buggy mess that looks more like a bowl of angel hair pasta than a finely tuned piece of programming”, says David Richards, co-founder of British data technology company WANdisco.

3 users thanked author for this post.

TupeloKid, fatbear, Roger

[Roger]

The ‘Telegraph’ piece quoted by capetonianm is interesting and reflective of other reports now beginning to appear on the quality of the advice our government is receiving.

It was Professor Ferguson’s model (and the headline figure of 500,000 potential fatalities) that I was obliquely referring to in my original post. The other statistic beloved of politicians of all parties, namely the R value, was also described by a leading scientist earlier in the week as “pure guesswork”.

But the government has succeeded in making the public afraid and now they need to be seen to be responding to that fear. Whether their ‘solutions’ turn out to be worse than the problem will, I guess, be a matter of individual opinion and circumstance. I, for one, am not filled with reassurance or confidence by the prospect of “a recession to end all recessions” (Institute for Fiscal Studies) largely caused by policy choices made on the basis of a dodgy model. But then again I could be completely wrong.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TupeloKid

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=998895]But the government has succeeded in making the public afraid and now they need to be seen to be responding to that fear.[/quote]

Quite agree. Unfortunately Ferguson disgraced himself anyway thinking his advice didn’t apply to him.

I think within a month the pressure will really start to tell and with the NHS not close to capacity things will start to move on from July.

2 users thanked author for this post.

TupeloKid, JETHROTULL55

[DavidGrodentz]

Simon, as an example of testing of arrivals at airports outside of the UK, yesterday in HK 4 people tested positive on arrival at HKG. 3 of them were on a repatriation flight from Pakistan. They have been admitted to hospital however, if the tests had come back negative they would have still faced 14 days mandatory quarantine

The 4th case is more worrying. A HK resident who tested positive in the UK on 14th May, decided to travel back to HK anyway. Luckily for the rest of us here, he was picked up on arrival and admitted to hospital. A number of people have said, in other BT forums that people arriving in the UK have been tested at their departure airports before flying back to the UK. Clearly, the UK is not offering the same courtesy

The thought of these cases being allowed to travel home on trains, buses, the MTR or taxis, and then to go out in public restocking their fridges or going to work is worrying. In HK, the number of arrivals at the airport is in the hundreds. If the same percentage were applied to the arrivals in the UK, the numbers would be significant

Which is why I still don’t understand how a country can impose nearly 2 months of strict lockdown on the resident population but be alone (or one of a very small number of countries) that allows unrestricted access through its borders

3 users thanked author for this post.

PeterCoultas, cwoodward, TupeloKid

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=998900]Quite agree. Unfortunately Ferguson disgraced himself anyway thinking his advice didn’t apply to him.

I think within a month the pressure will really start to tell and with the NHS not close to capacity things will start to move on from July[/quote]

You are a brave man man SimonS1 to predict what will happen within the next month.

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=998882][/postquote]

So I agree with you last comments there Simon, we need to open up the borders and bring the world kicking and screaming back to a semblance of normality as quickly as possible before the malaise sets in and we never get back at all!

To add to the debate here and I take no sides, I tend to agree that you cant follow what is being said in the press they are just ambulance chasers in a different guise, do I think the open borders have contributed, I dont know whether thats a fair statement, most entrees were before the lockdown as we have previously have said and whether the smaller numbers since would have had a contributory factor is hard to say.

Having said all that, you have to look at the numbers here in Thailand for example which are basically zero now after the some would say draconian measures set up by the Thai Government so as far as covid is concerned they have probably won but at what cost with people starving here in Phuket having to rely on charity handouts and with the economy irreversibly damaged some say never to recover you can understand others who were trying to keep their eyes on both actions and consequences!

I have said this in the past and will repeat, if people feel uncomfortable about the situation they have the right to stay at home and wait for vaccines etc and they have every right to do so, and there are others who need to get out and about and get themselves back into their business’s etc and maybe these people (me included) will contribute to the slow but much needed recovery!

2 users thanked author for this post.

ASK1945, SimonS1

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=998903]A number of people have said, in other BT forums that people arriving in the UK have been tested at their departure airports before flying back to the UK. Clearly, the UK is not offering the same courtesy[/quote]

I haven’t seen any reports on that case, however outward temperature screening is in place where it has been requested. See Heathrow website.

Maybe it just goes to prove what has been said all along ie thermal testing is not foolproof.

“The governments of some foreign countries are asking that passengers arriving in their country must have had their temperatures checked before taking off from their departure airport as an entry requirement, so you may see this on departure from Heathrow. We are working with relevant partners to ensure these actions can be performed as and when necessary.“

[canucklad]

[quote quote=998904]ou are a brave man man SimonS1 to predict what will happen within the next month.[/quote]

Don’t need to be brave up here in Scotland, having just listened to another interview with one of Nicola Sturgeons mouthpiece…
I can confidently predict this time next month ,we’ll be in exactly the same place as we are today.

[DavidGrodentz]

Simon, agreed, thermal testing will only pick up travellers with a fever. Covid 19 testing seems to be the way to go but, at this stage, it is only seems feasible with low arrival numbers

I don’t know whether HK have provided guidelines to the UK on departure testing, luckily they are picked up on arrival at HKG. Or, whether this particular case would have been picked up with thermal testing on departure. Clearly not if this testing did take place

Will not comment on the travellers decision to travel 6000 miles in an enclosed metal tube 2 days after testing positive for Covid 19

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=998906]So I agree with you last comments there Simon, we need to open up the borders and bring the world kicking and screaming back to a semblance of normality as quickly as possible before the malaise sets in and we never get back at all!

To add to the debate here and I take no sides, I tend to agree that you cant follow what is being said in the press they are just ambulance chasers in a different guise, do I think the open borders have contributed, I dont know whether thats a fair statement, most entrees were before the lockdown as we have previously have said and whether the smaller numbers since would have had a contributory factor is hard to say.

Having said all that, you have to look at the numbers here in Thailand for example which are basically zero now after the some would say draconian measures set up by the Thai Government so as far as covid is concerned they have probably won but at what cost with people starving here in Phuket having to rely on charity handouts and with the economy irreversibly damaged some say never to recover you can understand others who were trying to keep their eyes on both actions and consequences![/quote]

The Thailand Government do not seem to agree to opening up borders as they have just extended the restriction on all foreign visitors until the end of June.

It does appear, from the published/available stats, the more draconian countries have been with their border controls the lower their number of deaths have been. Thailand, Vietnam & New Zealand being the prime examples.

But I also accept your comment the world needs to reopen for business – timing though as always is the critical point…

I wont be rushing to T5 or even Northolt anytime soon, but would hope K1ngston will be firing up the BBQ for me before Xmas..

1 user thanked author for this post.

K1ngston

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=998939][/postquote]

You betcha Martyn… Anytime 🙂

1 user thanked author for this post.

MartynSinclair

[MarcusGB]

Ans still today i heard at LHR no measures that other countries adopted beginning of March.
Our Borders are still open, and we screen no one.

Not to have closed the Borders has been a serious error, and has have cost many lives, as this virus was predominantly spread via people’s travel
Much unlike other Countries, and Airports, we do now know the health of anyone coming in from March onwards, so i wonder how many passengers that might be?
Clearly initially it came from travellers returning from affected areas,having been exposed to others with the virus, travelling.

Comparing to Australia, France, Denmark, NZ, even our airports had made little effort, committed resources, and they do not need Government permission to start the basisc in all that needs to change at an airport.
Schiphol has been transformed and is ready with all Health and Public Health advised Policies, shaped into their Airport operations.
I certainly would feel very safe travelling through or to Schiphol.
I continue not to with LHR.

Anyone heard anything about London City Airport?

I really cannot imagine how you can social distance there, with such tiny areas for check ins, baggage areas, and overcrowded public areas.
Many aircraft flying into LCY, also only manage to be 116 seats maximum. mostly up to 100. 2-2 or 3-3 narrow Aisle, small Aircraft. will they be keeping social distancing passengers on these? They will not remain financially viable, with the airports restrictions on runway and size of aircraft.
Many old aircraft used especially Cityjet Avro series.

City Airport has significantly more issues to address than larger airports…

1 user thanked author for this post.

PeterCoultas

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=999239]Not to have closed the Borders has been a serious error, and has have cost many lives, as this virus was predominantly spread via people’s travel[/quote]

Can you give us a source where we can see this? How many lives have been lost directly as a result of UK borders being open?

[Author]

Posts