[stevescoots]

Interesting expansion in the region, I wonder if they have plans to join any alliance? The cynic in me of course saw GBA when It started as “indirectly” state supported challenger to CX, what is seen up north as a pre colonial hangover as its still part of Swire. Of course just my own mental gymnastics at work…maybe

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/transport/article/3212217/hong-kongs-greater-bay-airlines-orders-15-boeing-aircraft-eyes-5-more-hugely-expand-fleet-3-leased?module=service_journalism_int&pgtype=homepage

oh, and forum airline list needs updating 🙂

[cwoodward]

Undoubtedly not- I feel steve but I see a pull back already as the moves were probably not supported by Beijing
It could well end up as yet another costly mistake…several serious errors made already.

[stevescoots]

[postquote quote=1347274]

i did wonder how going Boeing over Airbus would go down north of the border

[cwoodward]

I am not sure that Beijing is interested in the aircraft but perhaps.

As I understand it there was a rift that arose when Cathay were sanctioned and the Cathay CEO resigned as a result.
As I understand it this was driven by a southern province and possibly a faction of the Beijing not unconnected to the promotors of GBA.

Its very murky but my take is that Beijing were not pleased as they had no problem with Cathay and probably the reverse.

I may be totally wrong of course and probably am.

[pheighdough]

When i saw GBA being set up I thought of it as the Chinese making a move to build a HK airline, to take over the mantle of Cathay in HK, and put Cathay out of business. My though remains unchanged, and now they are getting a fleet of modern B737s and some B787s are in the mix this is becoming more believable!
Happy to be proven wrong on this one, but watch this space…

[cwoodward]

pheighdough
I am interested to understand why ‘the Chinese’ would want to interfere with Cathay Pacific when they already own 30% and Hong Kong being part of China ? Expanding this line of thinking would lead to expecting that the Chinese government would want to take over every private enterprise in China…….which of course be nonsensical. Reds under the bed ah !

[Mark Caswell]

Hi stevecoots – I have added a forum category for Greater Bay Airlines 🙂

2 users thanked author for this post.

stevescoots, cwoodward

[AndrewinHK]

I think this is less about politics, and more about a competitor seeing an opportunity to move into a high-yielding market. HKIA has 3 runways now (still only 2 active) but when they have 3 active and the expanded terminal space, it makes sense for rivals to try and build out. CX has little domestic competition, Hong Kong Airlines was hindered by its links to indebted HNA, and also by the loyalty and strength of the CX brand (somewhat eroded since covid and the downgrade in service). I haven’t traveled on GBA but seeing the quality of the branding, and pricing, it seems to be competing more in the low-cost space, so more akin to an HK Express rival (again CX owned). In any case, competition is good.

[cwoodward]

I have not noticed any downgrade in CX and judging from other posts neither have most….what has been down graded please ?….on my 9 flights since November I have noticed nothing and it seems from other posts that 1st has gone up a notch. ( I have sat in the cabin this year but only enjoyed the J class service.
Although HKG was becoming steadily busier there were no significant traffic restrictions in place thus nothing stopping new players in the market due to runway or terminal restrictions. Of course as with any airport the best slots are taken first however HKG is fairer than most in this respect (details are online too long a piece to detail here)
The runway and terminal expansion is unlikely to be operating prior mid 2025
Andrew from what you mention above it seems that already the GBA forecast 4 class ‘better than CX’ model has been detached for a low-cost model. They of course also purchased the wrong aircraft with the Boeings costing around 12% per PAX per seat more to operate than the Airbus models but if now a low cost model they will likely just cram in the max number of seats. The Boeings are cheaper to purchase or lease of course.

Hong Kong Express is an established airline that is very well run and enjoys both a stable established route network (from Dragon Air and CX) and new routes that it is carving out plus of course the significant advantages of being a sibling of Cathay Pacific and with the backing of the Swire group and (if only temporarily) the Hong Kong government and not to forget the considerable indirect Beijing investment via the government owned Air China.
There are a lot more low cost airlines in Asia now and many are well established and formidable competitors for a new start-up stand alone competitor.
It looks to me that GBA are more likely to fail than to succeed but time as always will tell.

[AndrewinHK]

I think some quite noticeable degradation in CX service, the lounge capacity at HKIA has been reduced, I have flown a similar number of times to you, and the lounges have been crowded, and the food offering in my opinion is quite poor in the business lounges, the first lounge maintained standards. Onboard the welcome for being a diamond member was missing on many sectors (not that it bothers me, but it does bother some), and the gesture of handing a bottle of water to frequent flyers also seems to have disappeared. The new booking tiers also degrade status point earning, a colleague recently flew on a corporate ticket to Taipei in Y, paying $3.5k + and earning just 3 status points, which seems to be taking things a bit to the extreme. That being said I have found redemption availability to be good, overall the crew despite being through a very tough spell still delivers a decent service.

I would dispute that HK is as liberal and open an aviation market as you suggest, CX has benefited from protectionist policies for some time, and its acquisition of Dragon and then HK Express further expanded its dominance. Yes, low-cost competition is available at HKIA albeit on a small scale from Air Asia and Scoot, but the Jetstar/China Eastern/Shun Tak being blocked in 2015 seems more to demonstrate the lack of desire to have a real challenger of scale move in, perhaps GBA will change that, but I tend to agree with you that it will struggle.

[nibbler]

My CX Business class Breakfast ex FRA 3 weeks ago included a fruit plate with 2 pieces of melon and one piece of pineapple… Definitely corners still being cut.

1 user thanked author for this post.

AndrewinHK

[cwoodward]

Too equate the airport lounge situation during the Covid lockdowns and restrictions hardly makes your point AndrewHK.
Most are aware that the Cathay lounges have reopened as there is sufficient traffic flow. Most lounges are now open in Hong Kong and around the world. I only had 15 minutes for the lounge but nothing changed -as good as ever
Saturdays flight down to NZ was as near perfect as it gets. Greeted by name on boarding, on time arrival ,boss stoped by for a chat.
Great food, decent wine, competent staff. Not to mention the very good Cathay business class seat.
As good as it gets!

If the ability to earn points hurts the Cathay bottom line I am certain that it will be changed but as I see it overall Cathay is recovering well and I would say better than many major brands who were never hit as hard. Given a choice of Qantas, BA, SIA JAL Air NZ (brands that use HKG every day) I would say that JAL and Cathay are streets ahead of the others but I fly Cathay because I live in Hong Kong and not in Tokyo. BA has seen many better days, Qantas is very inconsistent, Air NZ is now a low cost airline with gimmicks rather than service, JAL is difficult for me to use and SIA I have never enjoyed because of the cabin crew attitude and the rigidness of the service which echoes what is Singapore.

I dont want to debate the airport politics as the subject is I suspect of little interest to most here.

Business is tough and any successful business needs to take whatever opportunities come their way and perhaps in the past Swire have taken any advantage that was presented as would any decent business.

[AndrewinHK]

Cathay permanently closed one if it’s most conveniently located lounges at HKIA ‘The Bridge’, this is a permanent reduction in capacity/service. I am a CX fan, but during covid was forced to take Qatar who in my opinion are significantly ahead of CX in terms of lounge and onboard products.

[cwoodward]

The bridge was an old lounge opened in 2013 and was superseded by other better lounges.
Looking forward to even more lounges when the new extended airport faculties open.
An arrivals lounge is on the cards.

I am interested in your views re Qatar lounges but they have nothing of the following of the HKG Cathay lounges of course.

[Author]

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