Future of KLM and / ?? Air France!

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This topic contains 61 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  Flightlevel 4 Nov 2018
at 19:04
.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 62 total)

  • esselle
    Participant

    A colleague of mine is the current AC chairman, and speaks highly of him.

    Hope he understands what he is getting into with the French unions.

    Bon courage.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Same old, same old …….

    Pilot body criticises process for recruiting Air France-KLM chief

    09 August, 2018 SOURCE: Flight Dashboard London

    French pilot union SNPL has raised concerns about Air France-KLM’s “inability to renew itself from within”, following a report that an Air Canada executive is poised to become the Euoprean airline group’s new leader.

    Air France-KLM is seeking a chief executive to replace Jean-Marc Janaillac, who resigned in May following the rejection of a pay deal by Air France unions. On 8 August, Le Monde named Air Canada chief operating officer Benjamin Smith as the group’s preferred candidate for the role.

    SNPL has since issued a statement that complains of Air France-KLM’s “chronic incapacity to welcome new heads and, therefore, to deploy new strategies”.

    The union recalls that pilots had been hopeful that Janaillac’s arrival in 2016 would “provoke a cascade of renewal in the executive committee” but argues that “the opposite has occurred”.

    It says it was “stunned” by the departure of Jerome Nanty – group human-resources chief between July 2016 and September 2017 – who it describes as the architect of the Trust Together agreement aimed at improving labour relations.

    Now, SNPL contends, board members such as Air France-KLM finance chief Frederic Gagey, Air France chief Franck Terner and the French carrier’s HR head Gilles Gateau are “maneuvering for the sole purpose of saving their position”.

    The failure of labour negotiations have left the French part of the group “very weakened”, in the union’s view. But it also believes that Smith’s ascension “would be facilitated by the promise of keeping the French old-guard in place”.

    On the premise that it is not currently possible for an internal candidate to land the top job, SNPL is urging the board of directors to be “impartial” and to consider applicants with “profiles that meet the vital needs of the company”.

    The union warns: “Two years ago, when Alexandre de Juniac left, we missed the opportunity to find the ideal person. Let’s not miss a second time. Air France might not recover this time.”


    MarkivJ
    Participant

    With the likes of AF and Alitalia, it’s always the same old cycle repeating with a new leader. Why KLM still wants to be their partner I’ll never know!


    christopheL
    Participant

    I’m afraid KLM do not have the power to demerge + a demerger would have a bad impact on KLM’s business + which other airline group would they join after such demerger ?


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Which airline group where they part of before the disastrous merger with AF?

    I am not convinced that a split would detriment KLM, given that they are being dragged down by AF. I am aware of the benefits of cooperations and alliances, but they have to be with the right partner. KL/AF is not the right partnership, given AF’s overstaffing, union problems, and dreadful hub at CDG.

    I was doing some work for KL at the time of the merger and the distrust and suspicion, to put it mildly, of the Dutch towards their French partners was almost tangible.


    FaroFlyer
    Participant

    Which airline group where they part of before the disastrous merger with AF?

    It was a mutually agreed merger. It was in the follow up to 9/11 when all airlines were still struggling and trying to find a way to survive, and avoid the fate that befell Sabena and Swiss.

    The only realistic way that KLM could exit AF/KLM is if an outside party paid an awful lot of money to acquire KLM, and this is very unlikely to happen.

    Wikipedia has an interesting history of AF/KLM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France%E2%80%93KLM


    christopheL
    Participant

    « I was doing some work for KL at the time of the merger and the distrust and suspicion, to put it mildly, of the Dutch towards their French partners was almost tangible »

    Have you ever seen a merged company very confident regarding what will happen after the merger ? KLM had very limited opportunities at that time and the merger has been a real success for them which means that they chose the good partner.

    KLM is not dragged down by AF. The two airlines operate independently and anybody can see that KLM financial results are now better than AF’s.

    What was right yesterday is no more right and what is right today may be wrong tomorrow.

    AF pilot’s and KLM pilot’s are now battling to go on strike first…
    Same old, same old ?


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    AF pilot’s and KLM pilot’s are now battling to go on strike first…
    Same old, same old ?

    One of the CEO’s first tasks will be union negotiations.

    On August 12 it was reported that Air France pilots union SNPL were threatening another strike.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2018/08/12/20005-20180812ARTFIG00127-des-menaces-de-greve-a-air-france.php

    Several days later Dutch media reported that KLM’s pilots union VNV were also threatening industrial action.

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/2/airlines/klm-dit-is-niet-in-het-belang-van-de-piloten-zelf


    ImissConcorde
    Participant

    Had things gone differently in 2000 who knows where KLM might be now?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/780063.stm


    capetonianm
    Participant

    My question about which group was KLM part of before the merger, was rhetorical.

    I have many friends and past associates who currently work for, or have in the past, worked for KLM and they all think that the merger with AF was a disaster from the beginning. I accept that KLM may have needed a partner but it picked the worst and weakest one. It is a toxic relationship.


    christopheL
    Participant

    What KLM has gained from the merger with AF (and what BA refused to KLM a few years before) is staying independant in a consolidation which created the world largest airline even if the buyer was a biggest and at that time more profitable airline.

    People at KLM know very well that the merger has been very profitable for their company even if the difference of culture between French and Dutch do not make its easy. At least this proves that both airlines keep there own culture without one trying to dominate the other.

    From a Dutch perspective if you compare which partnership BA and AF offered to KLM I am not sure AF has been the worst choice and it seems that a split is not what Dutch are looking for.

    Divorce may be looming: could KLM survive if it splits from Air France?


    esselle
    Participant

    Also interesting to note that a commercial alliance was struck between Schiphol Group and ADP about 10 years ago to “share” retailing know-how.

    The Dutch conclusion was that the French had no clue about retail strategy in their airports. The French simply ignored everything the Dutch said to them.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    For me the difference was summed up in a cartoon I saw and which I wish I could find.

    There was a meeting of AF management and senior staff and the agenda was :
    “We are losing passengers, losing money, our popularity has never been lower, competition is walking away with our customers, our jobs are in danger, what should we do?”
    The staff are saying :
    “Demand more money”
    “Work shorter hours”
    “Go on strike”
    “Stop serving food on flights”
    “Get rid of loyalty schemes”

    Simultaneously there was a meeting of KLM management and senior staff and the agenda was :
    “We are losing passengers, losing money, our popularity has never been lower, competition is walking away with our customers, our jobs are in danger, what should we do?”
    The staff are saying :
    “Take a wage cut”
    “Work longer hours”
    “Serve better food”
    “Be friendlier to customers”
    “Improve customer service”
    “Make our loyalty scheme the best”

    That sums up the difference between the two nations and their attitude.


    christopheL
    Participant

    @esselle

    You don’t seem to use CDG more than one time every ten years.

    Within the last 3/4 years CDG (at least terminals 2A 2C 2E and 2F) has been transformed into luxury shopping malls and especially terminal 2E which is now a copy and past of Avenue Montaigne.

    French people do not use airports as shopping malls. They buy things (mainly souvenirs and cigarettes/alcohol) on there way back. That’s the way we are.

    The concept of «personal
    shopper » which is « in use » at LHR (I read a review of this service some time ago probably on bt.com) is something which is billions of light years always from our state of mind.

    This is the reason why it took some time for ADP to convert CDG into a shopping mall (and to increase the fees paid by both airlines and passengers … and there profits !!!).

    We will probably see personal shoppers in CDG in a near future but I am not sure they will be able to speak French…

    What is good, what is not good ? You may think there is only one answer to this question.
    IMHO there a several.
    Diversity is not bad. This is one of the main reason why we need to fly !

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