[ImissConcorde]

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&newstype=n&mode=detail&nid=1776

[MartynSinclair]

The above does not read as statute law/rule. All it says:

“the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is reminding air passengers that using mobile phones is still forbidden on nearly all flights”

It does not provide a blanket ban.

If it is “law” – I presume the airlines should be prosecuting the law breakers.

If that was the case, nearly all passengers on private jets would need to be prosecuted along with a good proportion of passengers on most “other” flights!

[handbag]

flier74 – 25/06/2013 18:02 GMT

Correct me if I am wrong, but what some of you seem to forget is that it was not BAs rule or indeed any others British registered Airlines’ rule. It is (and luckily was by the 1st of July) a CAA rule. Trust me Cabin Crew on most Airlines do ot understand the rule themselves due to other Airlines deal with it differently or regarded as as outdated, but they are all non UK based carriers. LH is very strict about it actually. However if the Crew do not enforce the rule and a CAA inspector was to be onboard, that would have serious consequences for the Crew on the day.

You are not wrong at all. I personally could not care if pax switch their phone on straight after landing or the floor is not 100% clear by their feet in the Club Cabin etc etc. It is not a case of what I personally care about, it is about doing my job correctly. If a CAA Inspector is on board and see that I am ignoring their rulings, then it will be me, not them that has the problem. Do I agree with a lot of the rulings, do they sometimes seem petty, YES, but that is not my decision to make. So most Crew will adhere to whatever CAA tell us to do and not put our jobs on the line. Did I ever want to asked someone to switch their phone off – NO. Have I ever asked someone to switch their phone off YES. Do I enjoy ensuring the floor area in by your feet in First is clear – NO. Will I ensure it is clear (and the aggravation that often results in doing so) – YES

I do wish I was able to use common sense and that would be enough. How much easier and pleasant life would be for the Crew. You cannot imagine how much resentment Crew get from Pax regarding simple task like keeping the floor are clear, no bags at bulkheads etc. Some of the rules I agree with and understand the logic and some I don’t. The CAA do not allow us to use commons sense. If they have a ruling, it has to be followed without question, or risk the consequences.

[IanFromHKG]

MartynSinclair – 25/06/2013 22:21 GMT : The above does not read as statute law/rule. All it says: “the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is reminding air passengers that using mobile phones is still forbidden on nearly all flights”. It does not provide a blanket ban.

I read it differently. It says “using mobile phones is still forbidden”. Sounds ilke a ban to me. The notice also says “Any passenger who disobeys a cabin crew instruction to turn off a mobile phone is committing an offence, which could result in prosecution.”

The key, though, is that this isn’t the regulation itself, only a notification about it. I don’t know where the regulation actually resides. Does anyone else know? Then we could look up all the other weird rules (including the ones about whether my window blind should be up or down during take-off and landing – I never understood that one!

[CrazyCanuck]

This is good PR for BA……but their efforts will be shot fairly sharpish for being BA….the key thing to appreciate is that BA/VS/BMI do not set aviation rules in the UK. We just have to follow them, no matter how bizzare they sound.

[MartynSinclair]

Thanks Ian_from_HKG for your overview.

The other ban is smoking on board, which I believe is announced with a definite warning of prosecution.

So what’s the difference or similarities in terms of cell phone/smoking offences in aircraft.

It is now day time, so my window blinds are up and as it happens I am passing the CAA this morning o my way to an all day meeting in Aldwych…. If I have time, I may see if there is anyone I can ask..

[IanFromHKG]

At the end of the day, whatever the rules, if the crew maintain it is a safety issue, give you a “safety instruction” and you don’t follow it, that constitutes an offence. And there are other possible consequences too…

http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-a-united-airlines-flight-for-taking-pictures.html

[MartynSinclair]

Wow, having read that article will make me think twice about taking pictures on board. More amazing is how the travel writer has not gone for the million dollar pay off, (yet) instead, preferring to work towards this never happening to another passenger.

I agree Ian and have always supported cabin crew when instructions are given.

The issue I am trying to fathom out though is when anyone states “its the law”, is it really the law and if so, why aren’t passengers being prosecuted. The only offence which the airlines appear to unilaterally take seriously (except EGYPT AIR) is smoking, which does generally (as I understand it), result in prosecution.

I cant see the cell phone ban being statute, how can there be one law if you are landing at Heathrow on a Qantas jet and another law if you happen to be a passenger on BA.

Again very interested I the theory behind this and just to reassure the likes Handbag and co, I will still listen to your always polite requests and instructions….. :))

[stevescoots]

Sometimes us FF forget, I had a unusual reminder of the rules last week.

was on a Wizzair flight into PRG (how I ended up on wizzair is another tail to be told), We landed and started to Taxi at which point I turned on my phone and started to check my mail. A Victor Meldrew sat the other side of the ilse leant over, prodded me on the back and asked should I have THAT switched on. I just shrugged, grunted and carried on. he did it again, saying very loudly “is that switched on, it should not be” by now other people are looking at me, but I carried on to which he responded with “so you are just going to ignore the safety briefing are you” which I retorted, YES! of course half the rest of the flight also had their phones on by now.

my colleague was at sat behind me, wetting himself with laughter and he told me Victor talking to himself the entire flight and commenting how much fun it was and good flight for his 2nd flight..he also clapped on landing….

Anyway, I am never one to use the “Do you know who I am” lines and similar etc. However as got on the bus he stood next to me and started to have a go. After trying to ignore him I just rounded back with a “I fly over 100,000 miles a year, I know what’s safe and what isn’t, now P*** off and annoy someone else” I almost never lose my temper but this time I was pushed over the edge!

[IanFromHKG]

Martyn, BA planes are British-flagged and UK aviation law will always apply to people on board. Similarly, the UK CAA rules will apply. Now I am speculating a little here about how it works, but logically if UK CAA rules prohibit mobiles, and UK aviation law provides that passengers who don’t follow crew safety instructions commit an offence, then you end up in pretty much the position that it is unlawful to use a mobile given that there is always a crew instruction to turn them off.

CX, by constrast, is Hong Kong-flagged. While UK laws will apply to it while on the ground, UK CAA rules *may* not (don’t know that for sure, but since they will be complying with HK CAD rules I suspect they aren’t required to follow UK CAA rules as well)

[MartynSinclair]

I guess it depends in law, when an aircraft and passengers have actually arrived.

If a passenger is caught smoking over the UK, in a foreign registered jet, he will still be met by the Police on landing and prosecuted in the UK. there fore the rules about cell phone use on landing, must be the same, whether you are in a UK registered jet or not.

Either way, I have never heard of an airline prosecuting a passenger for cell phone use on landing, before deplaning, in the UK.

[IanFromHKG]

I am not sure that follows, Martyn. Smoking may be specifically banned by statute (or subsidiary legislation), whereas the restriction on mobiles may be coming in through the back door (CAA rules, and requirement to comply with safety instructions).

I do know that the warning signs on CX aircraft about smoking refer to Hong Kong law restrictions.

I have also never heard of airlines prosecuting for cell-phone use – but again I would be more worried about being chucked off the plane!

[flier74]

Handbag +1
Thatcwas exactly my point
I amtired of seeing Passengers arguing with Crew over issues or entering the childish “Why” discussion. As I said I feel like saying them, because they asked you to, thqt should be enough.
The relaxing of the ohone rule will make Crews’ life a little bit easier but then there will still be that “why can’t I use it on taxiing out?” Discussion amongst others I guess….
It is just disturbing to see frequent fliers (identified by their shiny luggage tags) argue with the Crew over simple things, bags on the floor, behind their legs, phones etc, when they clearly know the ins and outs.
Some people just need to grow up I guess but they never will.
Thats my rant over

[IanFromHKG]

Rule 1: Don’t argue with the person who has control over your champagne supplies for the duration LOL

Which reminds me, on a slightly different note, I do recall some time ago having my third glass of wine on a 4.5-hour flight, when I was sitting in the exit row, and it being delivered with a rather terse comment to the effect that I had better enjoy it because I wasn’t getting any more. I could only wonder whether it was because I was in the exit row and they didnt want me getting sloshed – although frankly it takes more than three glasses spread over a four-hour period for me to get tipsy! I was actually really quite upset – not just because I wasn’t getting any more plonk but because of the way the message was delivered. Like all things, if the crew member had politely explained that they were unable to serve me more because I was in the exit row and been a bit more empathetic over the whole thing I wouldn’t have minded, but as it was it came across as a rather heavy criticism, and I ended up feeling like a naughty (and alcoholic) schoolboy, quite apart from the embarrassment I felt since the CC didn’t exactly do it sotto voce. Sometimes, it is the way messages are delivered that is all-important. though I can imagine CC must get sick to the back teeth of constantly giving these messages and being ignored, so the tempation to be terse must be pretty strong

[handbag]

stevescoots – 26/06/2013 08:19 GMT

I am trying to work out if the above is you making a joke and are doing a parody of bad attitude.

OR .

You actually believe you were in the right and can see nothing wrong in the way you have acted or can be perceived above.

Please let us know that you were joking.

[Author]

Posts