[Binman62]

LuganoPirate…….no child protection issues in Europe….or rather on BA or UK airlines. All UK crew have CRB to enhanced level in orderv that children who are unaccompanied can travel safey and in full compliance with UK regulations and statutory requirements. In any event if the parent or guardian are present there is again no further issue.
The child protection regulations are indeed zealous but until someone comes up with a way to better protect children I for one back them to the hilt.

They should not however be used as an excuse for idleness on the part of crew.

[SimonRowberry]

Hi All,

My Lord – a sensible, constructive and non-emotive discussion on this thread for once. Well done!

I agree with the comments made about cabin crew. However, I guess it also depends on whether or not they have other passengers whose demands they have to meet. Like, for example, one of the now grown-up (physically but not mentally or spiritually) spoilt kids demanding a drink every few minutes and also wants to know why the IFE is full of “crap” films and can’t work it anyway; the drunk who really shouldn’t have been let on in the first place, having imbibed too much on one of his rare visits to a Lounge as he usually flies economy, but now he’s in Business he wants to get as much out of it as possible and Lords it over everyone; the passenger who has brought on too much hand baggage and has had to store it in the crew’s locker and demands access to it continually. We’ve all seen it……

Cheers and safe travelling,

Simon

[transtraxman]

It is all fine what you say but nobody has yet come down to the moot point. Should airline crews be obliged to help out in these circumstances?

[SimonRowberry]

Transaxman,

No. They should be OBLIGED to help out. That would be impracticable. I think they should help out if and when they are able, when it is appropriate and when it would be to benefit of both the family and the other passengers in the cabin. They cannot be perceived as alternative baby minders.

It should be “horses for courses” based on circumstances and the crew’s judgment (and willingness).

Simon

[SimonRowberry]

Whoops – I missed the crucial word “not” out in the first sentence! It should’ve read “should not be OBLIGED to help out.”

Sorry!

[dutchyankee]

I fully agree. Crew are not there as substitute nannies or baby sitters. god for bid something goes wrong, and it is an American or a Brit, can you say Lawsuit!!! Of course the crew avoid helping out, society has created the situation with the fear of litigation.

That said, some of the comments here have been ridiculous from the first fun commentary by Anonymous! It seems that according to some on this blog that those of us that complain about children in premium cabins have no right to do so, as we apparently have not had children or understand the demands on parents. Tough!! I choose not to have children, I also choose not to be disturbed by unruly uncontrolled brats whose parents think little Johhny’s expressing himself is ‘cute.’ It’s not!

The original post was hilarious, and well written. Kids will be kids, and I believe for the most part all of us accept that, however, when parents completely neglect their role in controlling their children when their behaviour moves into disruptive, inpolite, annoying levels, to the dis-comfort of others, whether in a plane, train, restaurant, or hotel lobby they need to be corrected. It is not an excuse to say that parenting is hard or that we were all children once, I know I would never have gotten away with behaviour like that I have recently witnessed, when I was young. And believe me, in Holland, where parenting has taken on a role of ‘let them express themselves as they wish’ it can be very trying for those of us looking for some rest on board! And the minute you complain you are looked at as the villain.

I once saw a parent in Holland in a hotel, whose little treasure was playing under a table set up for a brunch. He was playing with the table cloth and slowly slowly the dishes were moving to the edge. When an employee of the hotel asked the non-attentive parent to remove her child from under the table, mommy dearest went balistic. I so wish the employee let the kid carry on, plates fall all over him, screaming ensues, then whose fault would it have been? Shame it didn’t happen, lesson lost. But happy that I was a witness and would have offered my assistance to the hotel free of charge when mommy dearest and an opportunistic lawyer tried to sue the hotel for endangering the child. Parents, Take responsibility!!!!

[SimonRowberry]

Dutchyankee,

Totally disagree with you. Sorry buddy. Live in both the real world and 2011.

As most of us agree (even you, chap) – it’s usually the parents, NOT the kids to blame.

Let’s agree to disagree on this one.

And by the way, my wife is Dutch (ergo our son is half Dutch) – we have NEVER taken an “express themselves as they wish attitude.” Nor have any Dutch families that I know. It seems like you’re stereotyping by nationality. I guess by your tone that you’re more “Yankee” than “Dutch.”

Why not now how have a go at the Swedes or the Norwegians, where it is illegal to smack a child (and yet the kids seem still to be so well mannered – strange that)?

But as you say, you’ve chosen not to have kids. Your choice, but I suggest you’ve missed a lot in life. But above all, you know Jack about bringing kids up so please don’t criticise those of us who have chosen so to do and also (Heaven forfend) chosen to travel with them and (for Goodness sake!) in a premium cabin.

No DY – you go and enjoy yourself with the travel boors that I referred to above – those that know better but generally don’t give a monkey’s about anyone but themselves. For myself, I’ll go off and continue to do what I’ve always done – travel with my child in a Premium cabin AND also been sensitive to the needs of other passengers. Pity those other passengers are not always equally sensitive in return. Also, I pay for both of our tickets – I guess that many (but I accept not all) of the boors I refer to do not, as their Company pays. Vive le difference.

Rant over.

Met groetjes,

Simon

PS And neither Binman nor I have ever said that parents should not take responsibility – read all of our previous posts carefully and you’ll discover that. So at least we can agree on the responsibility issue. Actually, come to think of it I don’t really know what the point of your post is.

PPS And I’ve never said that you don’t have the right to complain. You do. Equally, I have the same right to complain when another passenger acts like a prat. Which in my experience is on most flights these days alas. Far more troublesome than any kids I’ve come across.

[dutchyankee]

Simon,

As you say agree to disagree. Born in the USA, but have lived outside since 6 months of age, so definitely more Dutch. Currently maintain homes in Both Belgium and Holland (as well as in Florida and France) and have plenty of experience with Dutch new-age parents who believe their kids should be allowed to behave as they will.

I have not criticised anyone for choosing to have children, good for you and the others who feel this is what makes them/you happy. In the same vane, don’t patronise me for choosing not to by saying ‘I suggest you have missed a lot.’ I disagree.

And to say I don’t know Jack about raising kids is ridiculous. I am quite an experienced and involved uncle, and truly love children. Of course, having kids of my own would be different, but I would still do my utmost to ensure that they were raised in such a way not to infringe upon others. As for enjoying travelling with other boors, and that somehow I dont care about anyone else, is simply unfair and ignorant. I think I was pretty clear, my complaint is with endulgent parents.

Of course, there are plenty of passengers who somehow feel above others, feel entitled, and I can not stand them either, VK comes to mind. However, I am by no means like that, and it is B.S. for you to suggest that as I have never said anything that would indicate such.

And by the way, as I have clearly stated in many of my posts, I actually pay all my own tickets, so you do not ‘own’ that argument either. Be fair in your posts, and refrain from trying to make parents seem somehow better than those of us who aren’t. You’re not!

[dutchyankee]

Simon,

P.S. The point of my post was initially to agree with the comment, yours by the way as I often agree with you, regarding crew helping out. And then I looked at the full thread which started with a rather hilarious post regarding absent parents. So I added my view; gosh, I though that was the idea of this blog, or is it only for Parents to lambast those of us who actually dare to complain about mis-behaving children. And when we do, we are told we dont know ‘Jack’ about raising children.

P.P.S. I fully respect your absolute right to complain about any obnoxious, misbehaving, loud, flatulent, drunk, entitled, adult, prat, and applaud you for it. Undoubtedly, more of my flights have been disturbed by that lot versus disruptive children, however, the initial point of this thread was about parents and their mis-behaving children.

[SimonRowberry]

DY,

Criticism accepted and due apologies given.

However, if you’d read the earlier posts I had made on this subject (and Binman’s are in a similar vein), you’d see that we both agree on one thing – it is down to parents to “control” their kids. And that goes beyond just when they’re travelling, of course. We both doubtless see good and bad examples of parenting. The problem with this thread is that quite a few posters see this issue as black or white. It obviously isn’t, to which I hope you’ll concur.

I will say that being an uncle is a hell of a lot different than being a full-time parent, and again, I hope we can agree on that.

Why this thread annoys me at times is that I have never (as far as I can recall) come across poor parenting on a plane, but I’ve come across constant poor behaviour from some of my fellow Premium travellers (and of course, it was not reasonable of me to even imply that you’re one of those) – however, you will have seen why some of the earlier posts on this thread have “got my goat” somewhat!

Safe travels and apologies again for any unfairness.

Met vriendelijk groetjes,

Simon

[SimonRowberry]

Just saw you PS’ – I agree totally, apart from the point that if my child misbehaved (and he can be a master at that – just not when we’re travelling as he knows he won’t come next time) I fully expect and would deserve a complaint to be made.

I remember once in the SAS Scandinavia Lounge when Dan was about 4, he “over-enthusiastically” grabbed an orange from the fruit basket on the counter and spilled a man”s glass of water. I apologised profusely, but the guy said “Don’t worry, I’ve got six so I know what it’s like to travel with them.” I think he and I both empathised at that point!

[dutchyankee]

Thanks Simon, greatly appreciate your posts. BTW, in CPH for the next few days, should I be on the look out for a flying orange on Thursday in the SAS lounge? 🙂

[SimonRowberry]

DY,

If you do, it’ll happen upstairs, on one of island “bar type” seating areas in front of the bar, to the left of the Sleep Cabins!

Enjoy CPH – haven’t been back there for a while as although I’m SK Gold, I now favour LX and LH, partly because the connections are better than SK’s nowadays out of BHX, but also because I became very disappointed with SK’s offer (too many years of commuting BHX-CPH-HEL which, thankfully, is no longer necessary!).

Have fun and thanks for accepting the apologies. Have a good trip.

Regards, Simon

[Travelcruiser]

Breaking news!! MAS to ban babies from flying First class!! Finally!!
Taken from today’s Travelmole…

Malaysia Airlines will ban babies travelling in First Class on the airline’s new Airbus A380 and Boeing 747-400 fleet.

MAS said the baby ban was prompted by numerous complaints about crying infants from First Class passengers, the publication Australia Business Traveller reports. ??

Those wishing to travel with babies will have to book bassinets in business or economy sections instead. ??

The airline’s 747-400s fly between Kuala Lumpur and Sydney, as well as KL-London and KL-Amsterdam, with the Airbus A380s due to take over those routes in 2012.

How long will it take for other airlines to follow? ‘Ban Babies from Business Class’ too!!

[PFidjes1]

Come on!

This same discussion was on in BT 30 years ago. I thought the dinosaurs were extinct by now.

Apart from babies (what age limits?), who else do you want to ban?

Overweight, bad BO or breath, ……

I do have a few trips intercontinental per year, until now have not experienced this as a problem.

We need children and their parents sometimes need to travel, and they pay for it

[Author]

Posts