FlyDubai tragedy

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  • Anonymous
    Guest

    TominScotland
    Participant

    This BBC report on recent FlyDubai disaster in Rostov raises chilling concerns about pilot fatigue in the airline, which has common ownership (Government of Dubai) with Emirates.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35855678

    This report is reminiscent of the Colgan Air crash in 2009 where pilot fatigue was also widely speculated as a contributory cause.

    Are many airlines routinely threatening passenger (and crew) safety by pushing crew to the boundaries of what is reasonable in workload terms?


    summerfly
    Participant

    It’s well reported that BA’s mixed fleet cabin crew have a much more gruelling fly schedule than the longstanding legacy crews. I wonder whether these changes for CC have implicated the pilot schedules also?


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    Fatigue and reduction in hand flying/raw data flying skills have been concerns in the piloting community for a long time, but the relentless pressure on price points has meant that managements must focus on efficient models to compete.

    Fatigue in this context is somewhat different to being tired.

    Whether it was a factor in this accident may become more apparent when the report is released, having had a quick glance, the weather conditions in the area were challenging and the aircraft had held for over 90 mins as well as making one or more missed approaches.

    I suspect, as usual, that there will be a number of links in the accident chain.


    TiredOldHack
    Participant

    I looked at the initial grainy CCTV footage of the impact, and it seemed to go in at a very steep angle. My first thought was that he’d simply stalled it.

    But this footage, taken from dead ahead, clearly shows it emerging from cloud, and then arrowing down, nose-first. It’s not what I’d expect from a stall or wind shear, because I’d expect it to drop a wing in the first instance, and in the second, to maintain normal attitude. Perhaps a pilot can elucidate?

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f7_1458594998

    The massive fireball also suggests that it was not out of fuel.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    If it had held for 1h40 mins, it may have been ‘tankering’ fuel and had quite a lot remaining (speculation) thus the fireball.

    The descent angle is very steep, I agree, whether this could have been caused by extreme windshear (microburst) is beyond my level of knowledge, as I only hold a private licence. There could have been a mechanical failure (e.g. elevator sticking in a down position) or many other things, I guess.

    The accident report will enlighten us.


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    Well, it’s all speculation, but now RT has reports from Emirates pilots as well….

    https://www.rt.com/news/337128-emirates-pilots-fatigue-scandal/


    TominScotland
    Participant

    Should we be surprised?


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Surprised at what – the amount of pointless speculation going on?


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    We’ll only know after the investigations.


    StogieGuy
    Participant

    I have a question (and it relates to this issue): why does it seem that so many flights in Africa, the Middle East and South Asia are scheduled at ungodly hours? By this, I notice flights leaving airports in the region at local times like midnight or 1 am – and arriving in the middle of the night as well. And, I notice that quite a few of the accidents in recent years have taken place in the middle of the night. I’m not talking about international long haul here (which inevitably fly all night), but rather the 1 to 4 hour long regional flights.

    I’ve always wondered why that is – and what impact flying such hours could have on a crew. In this case, the incident occurred at around 3:30 am local time – scheduled arrival was 1:30 am. Very easy to lose spatial awareness when you’re exhausted and it’s the middle of the night – and very dark.


    SimonS1
    Participant

    Interesting question. Funnily enough I’ve just booked a flight from Nairobi to Harare which leaves late evening and arrived well after midnight.

    I’d always put it down to a combination of airport opening hours and fleet utilisation. Plus I always prefer such flights where you can get a full day of business in.

    I wonder if the statistics really show anything?


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    StogieGuy – It’s a question we at BT have been asked previously.

    There are a variety of reasons. Main ones being:

    * Weather conditions. Cooler air increases aircraft “lift.”
    * Curfews at various airports.
    * Connecting possibilites.

    The first reason was most important up until the late 1980s and the arrival of the B747-400 which enabled airlines to operate non-stop Europe-SE Asia.

    But today with modern long-range aircraft it’s more to do with curfews, aircraft utilisation and the ability to have the maximum number of connections.

    Another reason is that airlines know that many travellers prefer overnight flights because in the case of business passengers they make better use of their time and, as regards leisure travellers, they save a night’s accommodation.

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