[EasternPedlar]

Just wondering why fares out of London are so insanely high.

A close relative living in NYC is unwell, and I thought of making a short trip there next weekend to see him. The cheapest direct flights (in business) ex-LHR are well north of £5000, which is shocking.

As it happens, I’m visiting a certain north African country this week, and I’ve bought myself a ticket to New York with official stopovers in London for under £1700. This is with direct transatlantic flight ex LHR with a reputable US carrier. I head back to London on Tuesday, and then leave for NYC on Saturday. I then return to London the following Tuesday and travel back to North Africa after 3 months, in time to position myself for my next trip.

If I’d restricted my stop in London on the way out to under 24 hours, the fare would have dropped to £1450 – which is presumably on account of APD.

Is it just the airlines who are to blame for this ? Or is it also UK business which are paying ridiculous sums to them without demur ?

Just wondering what Brexit is going to do to all this ? I’d guess that the situation is going to become even worse with reduced competition.

I’ve pretty much decided that I will route myself in a similar manner every time I have to travel to the US. Yes, it will cost me an extra day, but then I rarely earn £4000 per day (that too after tax!) so I regard this as time well spent.

Any comments from the seasoned travellers on this site ?

[AMcWhirter]

It’s something which I have featured in Business Traveller and which readers here have posted here many times already.

Litte wonder then that London-New York is such a lucrative route.

British Airways’ JFK-Heathrow route is world’s most lucrative

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EasternPedlar

[MartynSinclair]

Next time try going from Dublin, at least it’s on the way…

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EasternPedlar

[capetonianm]

It’s called Yield Management by the airlines. May I suggest any one of a number of books on the subject?

Those of a socialist bent would call it commercial greed, exploitation, capitalism and similar.

Having been on both sides of the argument, I try to see it from a non-partisan position.

[PhilipHart]

The difference in fare is most likely because a stop of less than 24 hours is considered a layover, whereas one greater than 24 hours is considered a stopover, and the latter must be specifically allowed by the fare rule.

It’s always interesting to see the fare rules for flights, and the Matrix Airfare Search website is a great way to access them.

Just enter dates & places, then when the results appear, select one of the fares. This produces an itinerary page in which the blue panel sets out in detail how the fare is calculated. Under the rubric Fare 1, Fare 2, etc you will find a link called “rules”. Click on this to reveal the Fare Rule, and how astoundingly complex these can be.

[Bath_VIP]

Alex,

This youtube video does the analysis by city pairs across airlines.

[capetonianm]

Click on this to reveal the Fare Rule, and how astoundingly complex these can be.

At one time part of my work involved editing these rules, trying to make sense of them, and resolving disputes relating to their interpretation and application.
They are usually fully of clauses and subclauses which may contradict each other, qualified by expressions such as :
However, notwithstanding the above, unless specifically exempted in the preceding, the Q surcharge will apply when travel is between TC1 and TC3 provided that outbound travel is Eastbound.

I made that up, but I am sure you will see the point, and if anyone is interested I can post real examples of just how arcane these rules can be.

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PhilipHart

[Bath_VIP]

Sorry just realised that was an airport pair video, not city pair.

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AMcWhirter

[CathayLoyalist2]

Was´nt it Willie Walsh who famously said “If passengers ever get to understand airline pricing we have a problem”

[capetonianm]

It was indeed WW who said that, and it’s something I’ve often quoted.

[PatJordan]

[quote quote=918043]Next time try going from Dublin, at least it’s on the way…[/quote]

And the US Pre Clearance is a bonus worth considering too.

[AMcWhirter]

[quote quote=918155]Sorry just realised that was an airport pair video, not city pair.[/quote]

But it’s still interesting.

However when comparing airport pairs (rather than city pairs) the conclusions can be different (for cities whuch have more than one airport).

Classic example being London-Amsterdam.

It was placed 19 out of 20 in the chart based on flights only from LHR (from where KLM has reduced capacity over the years).

But if you were to take into account all the services from the other London area airports (LCY/LTN/STN/LGW/SEN) then London-Amsterdam would be placed higher in the rankings.

[MarcusGB]

London – Amsterdam indeed Alex!
With the huge success of KLM taking back LCY-AMS route from the old “CityJet” flights, starting with one 195 Embraer a day, i think about 2 years ago, grown now to 9 flights a day! New Embraer 195 KLM CityHopper services, always seem to be full.

These are mostly A.M. and P.M /eve flights each way but with some just 45 minutes apart. Returns are £91, v popular with Business travellers eves both ways.
From 10am -17hrs they don’t have flights, LCY-AMS, and the Airport closes Saturday PM until Sunday PM.
Add in the BA flights, and the odd FlyBe for now, then it is a very popular and profitable route.

Consider the total number of KLM flights into the UK to the other 21 Airports, it is a huge amount of people , being moved over the North sea to Amsterdam, every week.
There are a fair few Leisure flights being connected to Amsterdam as a hub also, flights connecting to Africa, Far East, Caribbean i observe. These tend mostly to be the people in the Business Class seats rows 1-2, as well as the Economy seats.
I am sure the more flights they add on, (in the Middle of the day+, they will be taken up with great ease to connect to the Intercontinental flights.

I often think one of the World’s busy routes of Sydney – Melbourne with Several Airlines flying every 15 minutes in peak hours, But of course this is classed as Domestic.

[EasternPedlar]

[quote quote=918043]Next time try going from Dublin, at least it’s on the way…[/quote]

Thanks Martyn. I’m aware that fares from Dublin are attractive. However they require either a departure ex Dublin or a transit via LHR. My option allows me to stop in London as long as I want, and leave directly for NYC at my convenince. I envisage completing the positioning flight on a weekend, and then flying out to the US at a future date of my choosing.

[EasternPedlar]

[quote quote=918053]It’s called Yield Management by the airlines. May I suggest any one of a number of books on the subject?

Those of a socialist bent would call it commercial greed, exploitation, capitalism and similar.

Having been on both sides of the argument, I try to see it from a non-partisan position.[/quote]

“Yield improvement” requires customers to be willing to pay the fares airlines are asking for. The fatcat bankers and lawyers operating between London and New York probably don’t care what they pay as they deal in big sums, and their employers regard £5000 -£6000 as inconsequential. Will that change after Brexit, given that many of them will have to shift base to FrAnkfurt, Amsterdam or Paris ?

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