Extra runways at London airports
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at 11:11 by transtraxman.
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AnthonyDunnParticipant@ BA744fan – 12/01/2015 11:08 GMT
Yes but….
Your comparison with China is not exactly helpful. Having been in Beijing last Summer, I visited a part of central Beijing between the drum and bell towers that had been a thriving community only two years previously. Now there are white “Notice of eviction/demolition” pasted all over the place and much of the hutong has already been knocked down probably to make way for a further length of dual carriageway. The remaining locals were rather reluctant to discuss what was happening to their area.
Except if you are a senior apparatchik in the Chinese Communist Party, there are NO private property rights in China so, of course, an airport (or any other form of infrastructure for that matter) can be built in very little time in comparison with the UK (or most other western countries for that matter). Because ordinary citizens have almost no rights to object.
Is that a situation you would endorse in the UK? Are you happy to accept having your home bulldozed with any right to object or obtain compensation? It’s a rhetorical question. Of course you wouldn’t.
12 Jan 2015
at 14:02
MrMichaelParticipantI agree AnthonyDunn, I do not want to live in that sort of society you eloquently describe. However I do want our elected politicians to take a longer view for the benefit of the country. That is why weak government does not work, we need a strong government with a mandate to make the decisions the country needs for a prosperous future. I fear we will not get that anytime soon, might be ten years away. Thus, unlikely to be good news for airport infrastructure in the Southeast.
I do not accept as Charles-P said (no offence) it is down to civil servants, it is down to politics, politicians and democracy.
12 Jan 2015
at 17:48
AnthonyDunnParticipantBA744fan:
Hi, having been involved (tangentially) all those years ago in the plans for the new HKIA, I well recall the mainland Chinese government’s objections to the project on the grounds that the colonial administration was plundering HK’s reserves before the handover… That HKIA is now planning a third runway shows what utter guff that was. Because it will involve yet more construction over the sea bed and its flight paths will be over water and away from populated areas, this makes planning such works rather simpler.
But neither HK (hence the demonstrations) nor Malaysia has a democracy in the way that we understand it and Thailand has had the odd ruction and military coup since I was last there as well. I think we’ve avoided that.
CharlesP/SimonS1:
Ministers propose, Civil Servants dispose. If ministers want things to happen, Civil Servants ensure that they do. If they don’t, it won’t. As Mr Michael correctly observes, it is all down to politics and that means you and me. And politicians are, despite what the meedjah say, frankly fairly ordinary and typical of what passes for the educated population – unpalatable though such a proposition might be.
12 Jan 2015
at 18:37
Edski777ParticipantTo put things in perspective: LHR grew a mediocre 1.5% last year, mainly thanks to larger planes used by airlines. London’s competitors are showing much larger increases. AMS reported a 2014 growth of 4.6% and a number of new airlines to operate flight to/from AMS forcasted for 2015 and an increased use by carriers such Easyjet.
It is time LHR and the government get their acts together and fast. The competition won’t wait!12 Jan 2015
at 19:57
SimonS1ParticipantMrMichael – sadly politicians will say the first thing that comes into their heads if it makes them look popular. I wish we could influence that at the ballot box but they are all essentially the same wearing different colour rosettes.
Frustrating for civil servants I can imagine, however as the West Coast rail shambles proved there are shortcomings on both sides.
12 Jan 2015
at 20:46
canuckladParticipantInterestingly EDI has just reported year on year growth of 4% Although domestic figures are up,the significant increase has been in international travellers. With new destinations being added all the time. So maybe,and its a sceptical maybe , diverting or encouraging airlines to drive their numbers up in the regions might be the answer.
Trouble is, if current trends continue it will ultimately damage the one carrier that successive administration’s have protected, due to its importance to UKplc.
12 Jan 2015
at 21:13
transtraxmanParticipantFrom The Independent today….
“Passengers avoid connections at busy London airports in favour of continental rivals.”
This indicates some figures of the effect of overcrowding at the London airports.12 Jan 2015
at 21:23
AnthonyDunnParticipantI just wanted to add that whilst there are clear differences of perspective, it is extremely agreeable that this conversation is being had in a thoughtful and polite manner. Thank you everyone for that.
12 Jan 2015
at 23:35
Charles-PParticipantAlthough I agree with others here that it is politicians who are the ultimate deciders and that the Civil Servants their instruments I find the advice given to ministers by Civil Servants to often be the problem. I once thought that the TV series ‘Yes Minister’ was a simple comedy until I sat in meetings and heard ministers being told things like,
“That’s a very brave decision Minister, are you sure ? and “I very much doubt the public will see it that way but it’s your choice”
This is by no means just a UK problem, Belgium, the Netherlands, France and Italy share it. The Germans not so much in my experience.
13 Jan 2015
at 07:51
canuckladParticipantAnd Charles-P, If you chuck in the characters from “In the thick of it” I think we have a full complement of the characters that realistically reflect the shenanigans of the Westminster machine.
Alas, my mechanism for managing my task orientated mind, is to now shrug my shoulders and smile, when I hear our politicians yak their procrastination yap, and reminding myself that this is the system that made Britain great.. : )
13 Jan 2015
at 08:54 -
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