Expensive train travel…
Back to Forum- This topic has 29 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 13 Jul 2022
at 21:42 by TonyR.
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AMcWhirterParticipantHello Ian,
There has been much misinformation reported about France’s limitations on domestic aviation.
But this does not apply to our reports here and in the magazine.
In truth it applies only to those flights on routes where the TGV could accomplish the journey in under 2.5 hours.
However most media ignores the fact that this restriction applies to flights operating into ORY.
It does not apply to flights operating into CDG.
So from Lyon direct to the TGV station at Paris CDG takes a fraction over two hours (by TGV) so therefore one would think this route would qualify.
Yet Air France continues to fly Lyon-CDG *five times* a day !
Why ?
Because Air France needs feed traffic (just as BA does at LHR) and like other airlines it would rather not rely on a third party to carry them.
24 Jun 2022
at 12:19
x2000travellerParticipantYes, DB long distance services have many problems based on five trips made during the past two months. It has slipped a long way from where it was. There are many train failures, repair work on the track and long diversions around engineering works. Having taken a train at 0730 from Mannheim the other day, which managed to be 30 mins late right at the start due to late arrival from the Depot, the problems start early and just get worse during the day. And yesterday half the trains from Stuttgart were cancelled for much of the day as there was a problem with the overhead wire somewhere. Two weeks ago, the trains at Cologne essentially got glued up in all directions due to some problem somewhere or other: nowhere to take trains once out of service and they just ended up blocking platforms there and forming huge queues in all directions.
Certainly to/from the UK, the DB connection from Bruxelles/Brussel to Frankfurt is pretty unreliable but, to pick up a point made by A.McWhirter above, my understanding is that the issue here is that this particular type of train is only a small, dedicated fleet designed to cope with the (incompatible) German, Dutch and Belgian signalling systems. There are not really any reserves (the fleet is being worked too hard) so the moment anything goes wrong with one of the trains, DB will often end the journey early and send it back to Germany for attention than risk it being stranded in the other countries potentially for some time. It’s not the Belgian power supply that is the issue but the cab-based digital signalling (= no colour light signals) on the Belgian high speed lines (which itself is slightly different between Aachen and Liege that between Liege and Leuven). The drivers have to test the equipment when approaching these sections and, if it is not working, have to bring the train to a halt. Fortunately, the train can be routed on the normal line from Liege to Aachen when needed, although this takes 30 mins longer and upsets the timetable so much that they seldom seem to do it.
The rail connection between Germany and Belgium clearly deserves a much better service than it currently gets: SNCB/NMBS, the Belgian rail company, has apparently ordered some completely new trains with a view to reviving the hourly connection between Koln and Brussel/Bruxelles that used to exist many years ago. That’s really the best hope we have here but will take a few years to happen!
3 users thanked author for this post.
10 Jul 2022
at 15:45
AMcWhirterParticipantIndeed x2000traveller.
ICE cancellations between Germany and Belgium are not unknown. This can inconvenience those who have connections beyond Cologne.
It’s what this intrepid rail user discovered last month when he had to make a roundabout routing to reach his final destination in Germany.
It was going so well…
1622 Brussels Midi to Frankfurt Hbf has broke down
Revised Plan – was due Nuremburg 2220
1627 IC to Welkenraedt due 1811
1841 R to Aachen due 1856
1918 RE to Cologne due 2012
2031 ICE to Nuremburg due 0142 pic.twitter.com/EL9QXLg7XH— Daniel King 🏳️🌈🏴 (@rail_adventures) June 23, 2022
11 Jul 2022
at 13:53
FormerBAParticipant[postquote quote=1215088]
Indeed France and Germany do subsidise their railway networks but lets not pretend the UK government does subsidise the 3rd rate service we have here.
I am in awe of DB, but also SNCF, OB and Belgium railways, all of whom I have used this year and all of whom deliver a consistently excellent product at a very competitive fare, especially if booked in advance.
11 Jul 2022
at 14:47
AMcWhirterParticipant[quote quote=1223713]lets not pretend the UK government does subsidise the 3rd rate service we have here.[/quote]
Yes. During the pandemic rail author Christian Wolmar said earlier this year that the subsidy to keep the trains running (to a reduced schedule) was £17 billion.
11 Jul 2022
at 15:04
AMcWhirterParticipant[quote quote=1223796]I have a trip down to Paris coming soon and bagged tickets for as little as £39 e/w for a no frills ticket.[/quote]
That’s a great price DannyBoy.
Is that to Eurostar ? How far ahead did you book ?
I ask because over the coming days the lowest *one-way* fare is £155 to £195.
Or perhaps you were referring to SNCF’s Ouigo ?
12 Jul 2022
at 10:44
DannyBoyParticipant[postquote quote=1223899]
I booked these a couple of weeks ago on the Eurostar website for London to Paris only. My outbound leg was for £39 and the return at £59, the latter even being a peak time service. It was amazing to see the amount of availability when booking and the seat choices. Eurostar has trains every hour and this will be my first ever experience and am really looking forward to it.
12 Jul 2022
at 14:42
AMcWhirterParticipantThank you for the reply DannyBoy.
With the airport/airline hassle there must have been a switch from air to rail on certain routes.
See the piece we posted on today’s news pages.
I had thought that maybe this week’s high Eurostar fares to Paris might have something to do with July 14 and the public holiday in France.
But I checked for midweek July 20 and 21 and not only are most trains fully booked in standard class but he cheapest available *one-way* fares are £195, £253 or £276 (checked at 1500hrs Tuesday July 12).
And it’s the same with pricing the following week although availability is greater.
Finally … enjoy Eurostar. Feedback welcome.
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12 Jul 2022
at 15:09
ASK1945ParticipantThis topic might be about expensive train travel but if it’s impossible to book train tickets, it’s irrelevant how expensive they are !
I have sat at my computer for over an hour (so far) trying to book tickets from Avanti for London to Liverpool for a family, one day next week – for one adult and two children. Getting the required tickets and seats, in Premium Economy, was relatively straightforward. But paying for them is impossible. Filled in the Amex details several times, these are accepted and I then get a message saying that the page is not working.
I tried to pay using two different computers, two different browsers and via an Android phone app, all without success.
So, I tried Trainline – very straightforward – but £50 more for the same seats.
Agh …………………..
13 Jul 2022
at 12:24
AMcWhirterParticipantAsk1945 – I am surprised to hear this.
Train operators rely on third party firms to run their booking engines.
Virgin Trains used to use Trainline but soon after Avanti acquired the franchise it (Avanti) switched to another firm (to run its booking engine).
Trainline ought not to be more expensive. Other than its booking fee (which is modest) Trainline has long maintained it matches fares in the National Rail database. (That’s what Trainline claims)
13 Jul 2022
at 14:33
ASK1945ParticipantThanks Alex.
I tried Avanti several more times, without success. A friend tried also. I then went back to Trainline but the premium economy had disappeared.So, I tried the ordinary standard on trainline which would go through, but didn’t offer a seat choice. I also tried two other companies (including National Rail), but they also didn’t offer seat choice.
I went back to Avanti, which did permit seat choice and tried standard this time, booking a table in each direction; the payment went through straightaway this time and the tickets were emailed immediately.
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13 Jul 2022
at 17:29
TonyRParticipantWhen you get there, find yourselves some free seats in Premium and pay the supplement when the ticket inspector comes round. It can be cheaper that way then buying Premium in the first place. It’s about £15-25 per person depending on your journey length.
13 Jul 2022
at 19:03
ASK1945ParticipantThanks TonyR. However, it’s not for me, but for members of my family. I doubt that they will want to do that for a two-hour journey.
However, it’s a tip I will bear in mind when I travel again by train. During my business life I always travelled first class, sometimes three times a week, on the London-NorthWest routes. In retirement, first class (at a cost of a LHR-JFK economy air fare) is usually beyond my means.
13 Jul 2022
at 21:04
TonyRParticipantI don’t know. Premium on Avanti is basically First Class without the food service. I don’t know about you but the food is worth nowhere near the difference in price. For a two hour journey it can be well worth the small premium to upgrade to Premium – about £25 for a journey of that length. You can sometimes get an upgrade for as low as £12 on Seatfrog – they used to be common but much less so these days now rail traffic is rising again.
1 user thanked author for this post.
13 Jul 2022
at 21:42 -
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