Eurostar / Thalys London-Amsterdam Std. Premier / Comfort1

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  • Anonymous
    Guest

    MarcusUK
    Participant

    Needed A train return (incorporating a long haul plane trip), for a month, offering greater time during the journey. Living in North London, easy to St Pancras, and 10 mins once in Amsterdam Centraal.

    Fares
    ====
    Booking 2 weeks ahead for the outward journey, the base return London – Amsterdam return is £99 for standard on Eurostar, Comfort 2, on connection in Brussels. Trains run around every hrs to Brussels, where you have either a 48 min-1.50hr (!!) connection for the Thalys train to Amsterdam.
    As the base Standard fares had gone, I chose the Standard Premier that cost less, as seats were remaining, which also gives Comfort 1 on Thalys.
    I paid £109 outwards , with the return costing £79, (the base fare of £43 was available for the return). These were the fares for return trips.
    A colleague decided to join me a week before and paid £146 one way Standard premier, again £20 less than the taken standard fares. You can choose you individual seats and carriage, the main 4 in the middle of the train. You have no ldea or information on your Thalys options!

    St Pancras and Eurostar
    ===================
    A very arty station these days, spacious a, pleasant start with many outlets for up market travel food or to eat in, and a great “traveller” feel with many chatty Australians and Europeans talking away in the cafes. Boarding passes printed at home, you Must check through 30 minutes before departure time, security, passports, (all took 6 mins) and allow time for delays in unpredictable London
    This train left for Brussels at 12.58 weekdays, arrives 16.10hrs.

    On Board – Standard Premier
    =======================
    Staff on entrance to carriage confirmed us, and a Vegetarian meal option, shown us to seats. Seats are as Business coaches 1-2 across, a much greater difference than Standard coaches, with cramped airline seats 2-2. We had a 1-1 with fold down table in-between. Spacious toilet, remained clean and well equipped through journey. Service was said to begin 45 mins after departure, and a very attractive “light meal” tray was handed out. My Vegetarian was a tabbouleh, choice of breads, fresh fruit plate, and small chocolate pie dessert. Basic wine and soft hot drinks, and good hot coffee. Ingredients were high quality, well presented, refreshing and great taste. Better than an Airline Business Class meal for a 2.5+ hr European flight.
    The coach was quiet, smooth, clean, and pleasant with ample room, though a little jaded, and in need of refurbishments, and the outside of the trains a decent clean.

    Stopping at Ebsfleet, Calais, Lille, it broke the speed up too much, taking 2.12 minutes,but arriving on time.

    Connecting at Brussels
    ==================
    There is no connection between the systems of Eurostar or Thalys. Neither can help you on the other services, so on connection you are left to yourself. Tip: A Thalys lounge is accessible for Regus Gold card holders, or if you join the Thalys frequent traveller program/ or Subscribe to the frequent discount plans. You cannot gain access if you travel even Comfort 1 in Brussels. It is extremely basic though, hot drinks, water, no food seats wi fi, not a time where you would spend much time.
    The Two Companies also fail to time connections reasonably with waits at least 45 mins or up to 1.50 minutes! This wastes much time and the viability of using trains on this trip. No one in Brussels can access the systems for Thalys for any queries on your trip it seems!

    Thalys Comfort 1
    ======================
    Most trains run in from Paris completely full. Only a few minutes stopping, showed mayhem in alighting and new passengers getting on. Food service trolleys blocked the corridors, staff were unhelpful and rude, and the whole train appeared chaotic. Mostly business people, many were not sitting in their allocated seats, meaning a domino effect, and irrate and very unhappy people walking around for up to 30 minutes to be allocated a seat. It was fully booked in 3 Comfort carriages / 1 train. Even then, the “Train manager” changing the computer allocations, did not allocate people properly leading to problems at Antwerp and Rotterdam.

    Seating was 1-2 across, comfortable red velvet seats, with the train being clean and impressive from the outside. However, it appears these have been neglected inside, grime and stained tables, solid filth around the table hinges, food on the floor, glasses used at the side shelf, and the whole carriage dusty, generally messy, and poorly cleaned an maintained. A real drop in standard to Eurostar, and the Thalys trains standards of some years ago. Staff were rude, stressed, and un-interested.
    The train trip itself was smooth fast, but again stopped twice breaking up the advantage of high speed services.

    The “Comfort 1” food – nothing as described on the website, and a poor quality little choice sweet or savoury pastry with “A” drink was offered, for this journey of 1.50 minutes. You would not pay or choose for this food from an outlet.
    Better to take your own food, or go Comfort 2 and order a fresh dish cooked, and better standard coffee from the bar. It really was a very stressed and unpleasant atmosphere on board, dirty and an attitude of everyone having resignation to it.

    We arrived into Amsterdam 10 Minutes late at 18.59.

    Conclusion
    =========
    It took 7.5+ hrs door to door!
    Time is a major factor, compared to plane trips from many airports around London, a rail/sail option via Harwich which can be in a wonderful cabin overnight or daytime.. Services to Europe are set to improve when DB start service in 2016 directly to more European cities, Amsterdam included. The dis-association between Eurostar and Thalys for bookings and information means you are just on two completely different trains and Companies, unwilling and unable to communicate. The awkward connection times indicate no effort to make this a viable option that time saves or where you feel “High Speed” trains through to Amsterdam with so many stops, and a long in-between wait.

    Clearly, any other Companies running trains direct to European cities in the future, will immediately strip Eurostar and Thalys of these journeys. Clearly they simply do not want to co-operate or connect services between them.

    Eurostar surprised me in the Standard premier service, and whilst the trains are rather jaded now, the once better Thalys trains are clearly badly run, and poorly Managed, despite all their glossy websites and brochures on sustainable travel. The reality of being on their train is grotty, compared to their statements of what you will experience. There is never an excuse for unclean services no matter what form of travel you take.

    Handy from city to city if you do not have far to go, more leisure or work time on the journey itself, and less broken up as when flying with all the components needed to make the journey go. Neither is it price effective with most Airlines offering fares less than or cheaper than even a basic European train ticket. Not an option I would choose again lightly,
    Though I have to make the return after my Long Haul Business trip!


    TerryMcManus24
    Participant

    Dear Dear Dear……

    my last trip to Amsterdam was N.London to City Airport…BA (using avios) to the Dam…Tic was 15 quid….

    Total journey time was @ 4 hours d2d


    Stringfellow
    Participant

    ‘MarcusUK’ – I’m a regular user of the Thalys service (Antwerp to Paris) and your comments certainly rang a bell with me however the curious factor with Thalys is how one journey can see polite helpful crew while another has the muppet show. The inconsistency is truly surprising. The trains are also now looking their age with tatty seats and broken items which is a shame.

    The allocated seating issue is well known to regular users and at times I have nearly had to become physical with individuals (nearly always French for some reason) who decide they will sit where they please and ignore the ticket. One of my staff had an individual who refused point blank to move and he was ejected from the train at the stop in Lille !


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Hello Marcus

    Thanks for an interesting train check. It’s a pity that the ticketing issues haven’t been sorted out, especially as both Eurostar and Thalys are majority owned by SNCF.

    The Thalys services between Brussels and Amsterdam are busier than ever now that Thalys is the only through operator. As you know, the former IC trains were scrapped when the ill-fated Fyra service started and the former haven’t been reinstated.

    Two extra Thalys trains are being scheduled to meet demand between these two cities starting on October 7 according to the IRJ:

    http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/high-speed/thalys-steps-up-brussels-%E2%80%93-amsterdam-services.html

    Not sure whether DB will be able to launch London-Brussels-Amsterdam trains on schedule in 2016. That is the plan but technical issues and the UKBA may delay matters as I reported in a recent Platform:

    http://www.businesstraveller.com/archive/2013/july-august-2013/special-reports/platform


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    Hi All.
    Thanks for your comments.

    I regularly use Cityjet from LCY, odd time BA. In winter time these services get very disrupted, and i have an apartment in C Amsterdam, so am 1/3rd of a year in NL’s.

    However, it is always useful to try other services, review other methods of transport or carriers, and the range to Amsterdam from London is probably the most vast. Leisure or business, and time you can use on the way if all sails away fine, can be very useful.

    Rail and Sail overnight, Easyjet from Southend, LCY BA & AF, Eurostar and Thalys, have tried all. Often for an urgent trip, one can be extremely useful compared to another cost wise, and far more pleasant. Last winter I waited 7 hrs at LCY to get a flight out to AMS with the airport restrictions, when all other service options ran normally!
    The quality time of travel is not from LCY, so it is a different standard of travel, where your enjoyment and productive time can be better used.

    My point here, is that the Euro train options from London to cities other than Paris of Brussels are pretty un-co-ordinated, and really discount many people using a more carbon friendly option, it is a great pity we have not linked more cities by rail, and my effort to try and review was i think beneficial to see where it stands now.

    Worth a go, an awareness of every option, advantages and not, costs, and makes me a resourceful traveller. If i do ever get severely delayed again, i can jump easily to alternatives.

    Let us hope Alex, DB or one of the Companies really begins to take the opportunity to run service further into Europe


    Stringfellow
    Participant

    MarcusUK – have you considered using the Freya service from Amsterdam to Antwerp and then flying to London City from there with VLM/Air France ?


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Markus – International “Open Access” rail competition is possible in theory but not so easy to implement in practice owing to technical and political issues as DB has discovered.

    DB, assuming its trains start in 2016 or later, will be the sole open access firm out of London. Where competition to Eurostar is really needed, between London and Paris, there are no plans for any other operator to compete.

    Air France mooted a rival service a number of years back but nothing came of the plan.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054409/Look-Eurostar-comes-Air-Frances-new-high-speed-train-whizzes-Paris-hours.html

    Even if a potential rival did appear, can you imagine the problems it would face in securing ‘slots’ at congested Gare du Nord ?


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    Thanks for the info Alex, I can see the issues.

    But deciding to enable fares through to AMS, Thalys and Eurostar make a both job of running these as in my review, in every connection aspect. Taking the experience is quite off putting.
    Too commonly now with travel, we see tokenism, and n substance in what is the actual experience. Why bother if such little effort is put in to make something effective? That is bad business in any sense…but with travel, there is a complacency these days.
    Eurostar trains to Brussels are not so busy, so this could be a revenue raiser, more for leisure and families, and reach obviously more points in NL’s rather than just as far as Amsterdam.

    Likewise, we never really did see Eurostar connecting Europe from The North and Mids in the UK, something much promoted for the time. Much like HS2 will end up, duplicating what we have already, at huge cost, when actually it is not creating anything new.
    We would be better to put 12 coaches on trains rather than 7-8, as BR used to do, and increase seating, without taking extra line capacity.

    The Fyra option has had much very bad publicity here in Holland. Belgium trains forbid FYRA trains from their rails, and as far as i know they still only run as far as Rotterdam, on old stock and engines. The nice NS trains no longer ply an hourly service to Brussels, so Thalys is all we have. Fyra is seen as Failed, with a Dutch government enquiry to start, and NS want the trains out of their network and back to Italy!
    It is a completely failed project, and a costly one for all funding bodies and Governments, and it is over, no rescue, retrieval.
    The Dutch transport Minister has demanded NS fit back in trains to Brussels, on the packed schedules on the network.

    The Antwerp option would take much longer, and still from LCY where there is already a decent service to AMS with AF and BA, but always major delays in winter due to the restrictions. But for South NL’s a better option.
    Rotterdam can also be an option but again is from LCY.
    Getting into N Holland (Groningen) is impossible with all UK services no longer running.

    In Business, we should strive to do our best, and produce what we state we will. Why with such complacency in European Business travel, do we find such discrepancies in the actual experience?
    I suppose we have little choice, but in a small business sense, a Company and its employees would fail if we all conducted our business, and worked with such poor effort, and resulting standards!


    MarcusUK
    Participant

    The latest news on the Fyra Saga, implications for Thalys and the services between NL’s and Belgium clearly.

    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/09/ns_involves_fyra_train_makers.php


    boring45
    Participant

    Rail and Sail overnight, Easyjet from Southend, LCY BA & AF, Eurostar and Thalys, have tried all. Often for an urgent trip, one can be extremely useful compared to another cost wise, and far more pleasant. Last winter I waited 7 hrs at LCY to get a flight out to AMS with the airport restrictions, when all other service options ran normally!??

    __________________
    GuL

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