EU261 & what time is classed as delay?Back to Forum
A poster asks a perfectly reasonable and sensible question and is given several reasonable, clear and sensible responses which all say pretty much the same thing.
Then someone comes in and tries to blind us with ‘science’ and various points which in themselves make sense but are invalid in this context. BS doesn’t baffle brains. I know exactly what ACARS is and how it works, and it’s not germane to this discussion.
Who reported this measured and sensible post as’inappropriate’?30 Jan 2018
You asked about ACARS times being the “Offical Time” and you claim to know all about ACARS. If you did really know about ACARS times, then you would also know those are the times which are reported to the UK CAA. They are the times which ALL time based maintenance is driven by, that is the time in which flight crews are paid (generally scheduled or actual which ever is greater), they are used to calculate FDP compliance for the pilots and it is the time which is used to calculate “on-time” performance.
Again, I am not arguing the validity of the claim, but I was just trying to provide an insight, which apparently you claim you don’t need, to how times are actually calculated. If you know how the times are derived you would have a much better idea as to how to argue the times. The UK CAA does have the official times the airline reported and while the airline might be saying the aircraft was “IN” at XX:XX, the time reported to the CAA might be different.31 Jan 2018
I didn’t ask about ACARS.
I know what ACARS is, in fact I’ve worked on projects using ACARS feeds into ground systems.
As capetonianm says (who also understands ACARS) it is not germane to the OP’s case, as there appears to be no dispute about time on stand and the wait for disembarkation then becomes the critical time point, which will be assessed by the passengers observation and any contempraneous notes or other data.
If it had been me in place of the OP (and I’ve been in similar situations) I would write the critical times in a small notebook I carry, using my mobile phone for an accurate time.
I am not a litigious person, but on the rare occasions it has been necessary to use the small claims track, such evidence has been enough to win the case (I’ve never lost one).31 Jan 2018
Its the real time to the pax and’till pax disembark nothing else matters.
Aircraft can land at x minutes and not disembark pax’till x+y minutes (or hours!).
That’s all judge will consider in court. There must be ways to prove that?
Maybe photo’ the arrival/ departure board in the terminal at x+y time?31 Jan 2018
My wife and I were travelling ATL LHR MAN with BA last month with and STD of 2100. At 2200 we were told very nicely that the crew were unavailable and the flight would depart at 0900 the following day. I didn’t wait for BA to organise coaches and hotels and booked myself an airport hotel and as an 0900 departure from ATL to LHE meant we missed the last flight to MAN I also booked a hotel at LHR. On the whole I thought BA staff handled the situation well BUT the reason for the delay was that the BA crew hotel was next to the outdoor party after the college football super bowl and lasted until dawn meaning the crew go no sleep and decided they were unfit to work thus giving us exactly 24 hour delay on arrival at MAN BA already refunded without quibble my expenses, highly efficient and in my account in four days BUT we are waiting to hear how they will address the EU261 compensation issue. If they paid up very soon I will be very impressed indeed— if not Ill take encouragement for people on here and complain and complain and complain. BA must have been the only people in Atlanta, No make that Georgia, who did not know about the party and allowed their crew to accept rooms overlooking the event rather than a quieter location or better yet another hotel !1 Feb 2018
A while back I claimed against BA for a delay, and they quoted the arrival time as being the touchdown time (three minutes before the compensation “border”). I politely wrote back pointing out the “ready to disembark” rule and said I thought it unlikely that the ‘plane slowed down to taxi-ing speed, taxi-ed to the gate and opened doors in three minutes. They sent me the money.11 Feb 2018
I claimed against BA for a delay, and they quoted the arrival time as being the touchdown time (three minutes before the compensation “border”
Isn’t that just blatantly dishonest? I am sure a smart lawyer could nail them for falsifying evidence or something along those lines? The rules are quite clear.11 Feb 2018
Ian, I know the law does not allow for this, but it would be great if a private citizen could charge an admin fee of £25 when forced to reply to a letter like that, i.e. blatantly contra the regulation.11 Feb 2018
Yes, it is blatantly dishonest, in the broader sense. And like FDoS I wish it was possible to penalise companies for that sort of sharp practice. Unfortunately, so far as I am aware, there isn’t any grounds for doing that.
Ian12 Feb 2018