Ethiopian Airlines B737 crash

Back to Forum

This topic contains 72 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  Tom Otley 23 Mar 2019
at 06:05
.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 73 total)

  • Michael Allen
    Moderator

    Business Traveller’s report on the matter can be read here:

    Chinese airlines suspend Boeing 737 Max 8 flights following Ethiopian Airlines crash


    GivingupBA
    Participant

    I would be nervous about flying on a 737 MAX for the time being.

    ‘Nervous’? – I’m not surprised. Wild horses couldn’t drag me on a 737 MAX for the time being, and I’m not at all a nervous flyer. cwoodward kindly provided a link to an article which says “Boeing Company today published an update to the flight crew operations manual for its 737 Max 8, warning of a possible fault in the aircraft’s angle of attack system that could cause the aircraft to violently pitch nose down, according to the FAA …. The agency said operators have less than 30 days to comply with the AD.”

    “30 days to comply”?? How about 30 minutes? 200 737 MAXs have been delivered, and two have crashed losing all aboard.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    SimonS1
    Participant

    “30 days to comply”?? How about 30 minutes? 200 737 MAXs have been delivered, and two have crashed losing all aboard.

    I thought deliveries were over 350 now?

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    SimonS1 above
    ‘I thought deliveries were over 350 now?’

    About 300 I understand from google Boeing delivery list online.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    Michael Allen
    Moderator

    Boeing has now said it will deploy a software upgrade for the Max “within weeks”.

    Per Reuters:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-boeing/boeing-to-upgrade-software-in-737-max-8-fleet-in-weeks-idUSKBN1QT04X


    SimonS1
    Participant

    SimonS1 above

    ‘I thought deliveries were over 350 now?’

    About 300 I understand from google Boeing delivery list online.

    According to one of the FAA updates last night the worldwide fleet is 387 of which 74 aircraft are with US operators.


    canucklad
    Participant

    I’m afraid I’d be very, very reluctant to board a 737 max right now.
    Seems prudent to ground the fleet until a preliminary report discounts links to the Lion Air tragedy.

    Simply put, pilots don’t want to die.

    And it seems to me, there are too many similarities between the 2 incidents.
    For me, it’s not just a single factor. A pilot has to work with the technology in front of him. If that hi tech software is a factor in undermining a pilots decision making and ability to “Fly” an airworthy aircraft , then common sense says ….”Stay on the Ground”

    I have to say, Boeings press release is anything but re-assuring !!


    Ahmad
    Participant

    After reading the Boeing statement, avherlad’s analysis and unanswered questions (link below); worrisome has turned into disturbing, bordering on alarming. As a non-expert it looks like commercial considerations are outweighing the value of human life. I avoided flying the B787 for several years until battery issues were partially sorted and it looks like the B737MAX has now joined my list of verboten aircraft.

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724/0009&opt=2048


    philsquares
    Participant

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2019/03/11/the-boeing-737-max-crashes-is-there-a-problem-with-the-plane-or-the-pilots/#3be00e40584a

    Made a post a few days ago, which in essence says the same thing as the Forbes piece. The malfunction, if recognized, is not a big deal and easily dealt with.


    canucklad
    Participant

    The malfunction, if recognized,

    And from the Forbes article…..

    Boeing’s decision not to inform airlines of the new anti-stall system is part and parcel of that, says Mackey. “Boeing is trying not to confuse them with a lot of additional information. Boeing figured this will just be something that happens automatically and the crew won’t have to know about it,” says Mackey. “And now Boeing’s on the carpet for it. It’s a complicated issue.”

    There seems to be a lack of synergy between the human and the machine, and until it’s 100% confirmed that 100% of 737 Max pilots can successfully use their aviator skills to override the malfunction then the fleet should be grounded.


    JohnnyG
    Participant

    Just been announced that the CAA has also banned the 737 MAX 8 from departing, arriving or overflying UK airspace. That will hit TUI and Norwegian badly, not only a major reorganistaion but also a hit to the bottom line.


    LetsGoOutside
    Participant

    On Monday, the US FAA demanded certain modifications to the Max8 including adding anti-stalling software and maneuvering system updates. The FAA demanded that these modifications be delivered by April. In other words, unless the modifications are implemented as demanded (not “requested”), the aircraft’s airworthiness certificate will be removed in April. It is anybody’s guess Why an aircraft that is deemed unsafe to fly in its current design starting in April is actually allowed to fly for the remainder of March (at least in the US: the plane is now grounded in two additional third world countries with incompetent pilots, namely Australia and Singapore, in additions to other countries announced previously)


    Ahmad
    Participant

    Looks like Norwegian has also decided to suspend flying them …


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Regardless of whether the aircraft is safe or not, and I don’t pretend to know, I think grounding them is wise even if only for PR reasons, until a formal clearance has been obtained. Most people would not wish to fly 737MAX.

    The flying public are very fickle. We delayed a transatlantic flight of the airline I was station manager for. It was a Boeing 707 and there was a suspected fault with an avionics component. The most abusive and vociferously complaining passengers were USAmericans, and I pointed out to them that both the aircraft and the avionics were … USA origin.

    When we got them onto a coach into town for an overnight stay, one man spat at one of the ground staff because she couldn’t tell him when the plane would take off – because we didn’t know. I had to make a PA and apologised for the inconvenience but pointed out that we would rather cancel or delay a flight than risk a potentially unsafe aircraft flying over almost 4000 miles of open ocean.

    The ‘spitter’ was offloaded when the flight finally did depart the next day, for continuing to be threatening and foul-mouthed after a warning. Nearly all the other passengers thanked us for considering their safety. I even got $50 as a ‘tip’ to share between the office staff. That was a lot in those days.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 73 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Business Traveller UK March 2019 edition
Business Traveller UK March 2019 edition
Be up-to-date
Magazine Subscription
To see our latest subscription offers for Business Traveller editions worldwide, click on the Subscribe & Save link below
Polls