Ethiopian Airlines B737 crash

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This topic contains 72 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  Tom Otley 23 Mar 2019
at 06:05
.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 73 total)

  • Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    News coming in this morning of the crash of a flight from Addis to Nairobi

    Ethiopian Airlines Flight to Nairobi Involved in Fatal Crash


    Ahmad
    Participant

    Second 737Max crash in less than six months. Worrisome.

    542723FD-D66C-4923-902A-AC93925C499A

    Attachments:

    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    It’s being reported that there are no survivors…

    And of course it is being linked to the B737-max Lion Air crash…

    Behind the Lion Air Crash, a Trail of Decisions Kept Pilots in the Dark

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    capetonianm
    Participant

    It is inevitable that it will be linked to the only other crash of the same a/c type. Rather than condemning the aircraft type, of which there are over 200 in service and 4000 on order, I suspect a training flaw whereby flight deck crews have not been adequately trained in the new technology.

    That said, I would be nervous about flying on a 737 MAX for the time being. None are operated by any airline I am likely to fly on in the near future, with the possible exception of FI.


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Besides FI (Icelandair) airlines operating the B737 MAX8 (the long range variant) include Air Italy, American, Flydubai, LOT and Norwegian.

    It was the same aircraft type which was stranded in Shiraz for two months recently when Norwegian was operating a flight between the UAE and Scandinavia.


    paulkaz
    Participant

    FAA issued advice on how pilots react to false readings in the 737-800 max. May be relevant to today’s tragedy.

    http://time.com/5447619/boeing-737-max-crash/


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    A picture has emerged of the wreckage.

    In “Update 8” we see what appears to be ET’s CEO touching a piece of wreckage.

    Shouldn’t that be the investigators’ job ?

    https://www.airlive.net/breaking-ethiopian-airlines-et302-from-addis-ababa-to-nairobi-involved-in-fatal-accident/


    Tom Otley
    Keymaster

    The Ethiopian Airlines Twitter feed is being regularly updated.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    ‘China grounds ALL B737 MAX aircraft until further notice.’

    It seems a very wise decision given and I would not be surprised to see other airlines follow.
    Some smaller operators already have followed.

    SHANGHAI (Reuters) – China’s aviation regulator has ordered domestic airlines to suspend their Boeing 737 Max aircraft, Chinese media outlet Caijing reported on Monday, following a deadly crash on Sunday of a 737 MAX 8 operated by Ethiopian Airlines.
    Quote:
    Citing industry sources familiar with the matter, Caijing said domestic airlines, which operate some 60 such airplanes, had received orders from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) and halted their use on Sunday.
    A Boeing spokesman declined to comment. The CAAC could not be immediately reached for comment.
    An Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max 8 bound for Nairobi crashed minutes after take-off on Sunday, killing all 157 people on board.
    This is the second crash of the 737 MAX, the latest version of Boeing’s workhorse narrowbody jet that first entered service in 2017.
    In October, a 737 MAX flown by Indonesian budget carrier Lion Air flying from Jakarta on a domestic flight crashed 13 minutes after take-off, killing all 189 passengers and crew on board.
    The cause of that crash is still being investigated. A preliminary report issued in November, before the cockpit voice recorder was recovered, focused on airline maintenance and training and the response of a Boeing anti-stall system to a recently replaced sensor but did not give a reason for the crash.
    Caijing, a state-run news outlet that covers finance and economics, said many flights scheduled to use 737 Max planes would instead use the 737-800 models.
    China Business News also reported on its website the 737 Max suspension, saying the regulators’ order had been issued orally.
    According to flight tracking website FlightRadar24 there were no Boeing 737 Max 8 planes flying over China as of 0043 GMT on Monday.
    Most of Air China’s 737 MAX fleet of 15 jets landed on Sunday evening, with the exception of two that landed on Monday morning from international destinations, according to FlightRadar24.
    It did not list any upcoming scheduled flights for the planes.
    China Eastern’s four 737 MAX jets landed on Sunday evening and no further flights were scheduled until Tuesday, FlightRadar24 data showed.
    Cayman Airways has grounded both of its new 737 MAX 8 jets until more information was received, the Cayman Islands airline said in a statement on its website.
    Fiji Airways said it had followed a comprehensive induction process for its new Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft and it had full confidence in the airworthiness of its fleet.
    “We continue to ensure that our maintenance and training programme for pilots and engineers meets the highest safety standards,” the airline said.

    This makes also interesting reading.
    https://www.flyingmag.com/faa-emergency-airworthiness-directive-boeing-737-max-8

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Dominic Ellis
    Participant

    A flydubai spokesperson said it is monitoring the situation. The Dubai carrier has taken delivery of 7 MAX 8s/9s (the first 9 arrived recently) and has 175 MAX on order – though the bulk of its planes in operation are 737-800s.
    “We remain confident in the airworthiness of our fleet. The safety of our passengers and crew is our first priority.”


    Swissdiver
    Participant

    Short the stock! This is very bad for Boeing. And if the NYT theory is right (Tom’s post on March 10th at 10:37), it will cost them millions in compensations!


    philsquares
    Participant

    IF, and I mean a very big IF, the ET accident was same underlying cause of the LION Air crash, it never should have happened. First of all, the Lion Air crash was caused by a whole series of failures, maintenance for not fixing the original write up and the subsequent 4 write ups, inadequate training and failure of the crew to go basics and “fly the airplane”.

    All Boeing and Airbus aircraft have in the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook) there is a section of flight with unreliable airspeed indications. It is nothing more than pitch power settings for climb, descent and cruise. If the crew follows that reference, the crash will be avoided. It’s not rocket science and should be part of the initial training syllabus and the crews should see it during at least one session of recurrent training.

    Again, it’s very tragic, but sadly, it is another accident which could have been avoided.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    LetsGoOutside
    Participant

    To Philsquares: it is much more complicated than you pretend.

    The 737Max has two detectors to help control climb and cruise. The problem is when they provide contradictory indications it is very difficult for pilots cannot regain manual control of the plane.

    In the Airbus A320, there are 3 detectors. Then, if information provided by detectors is inconsistent, the system disengages and the pilots can fly the plane manually without problem. Hence no A320 crash of this kind, with a much larger fleet in service than the 737Max (only 350 Max delivered so far). The 737Max is different from other 737 as the engines have been moved forward significantly compared to other 737 models. This makes the plane much more difficult to control in a situation like that encountered by Lion Air pilots. Also, it is undisputed that Boeing did not inform airlines of the need for special training related to the new configuration (American Airlines made its dissatisfaction known in this regard and had to retrain its pilots abruptly).

    The crash of two brand-new planes in similar circumstances is very worrysome and you can bet that the FAA and the EASA are meeting feverishly to decide what to do about it at the time we speak.


    philsquares
    Participant

    To Philsquares: it is much more complicated than you pretend.

    The 737Max has two detectors to help control climb and cruise. The problem is when they provide contradictory indications it is very difficult for pilots cannot regain manual control of the plane.

    That’s just the thing is it NOT difficult to control. The 737 retrace pedestal have two red guarded switches which cutout the electrical trim. Have not flown the 737 but have plenty of time in the 727 and A320, the electrical trim switches solve the problem. Then it is just a matter of using the manual trim wheel to get the aircraft back in the trimmed condition for the respective flight phase.

    We don’t even know the cause of the crash and people are already convinced it’s the same problem. It very well could be. However, you have other airlines such as WN, AA, UA and FR all seem to have no problems and have re-emphasized the guidance contained in the QRH.

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