[canucklad]

My ferry usage was pretty much limited to travelling by coach on Scotland trips.
And thank God those days are behind me, for me the ferry was a welcome respite from the confines of the bus. And sadly the Dover-Calais part of the journey was over far too quickly.

My question is this, have the ferry companies altered their business model since the arrival of the tunnel or have they slavishly tried to make their tried and tested pre-tunnel model work?

The other unmentionable is this….. If the tunnel becomes a monopolistic venture, then its importance to our economy rises significantly, and as consequence so does its appeal as a target to those out there out who are hell bent on causing us harm.

[AMcWhirter]

You make a good point, LP.

Until now there have been three fires inside the Channel Tunnel which have affected its operation.

The worst fire was in 1996. The Tunnel was closely completely for a time because the fire burned for seven hours.

Even when it reopened, there had to be a limited service for six months (because only a single track could be used) whilst the affected section of the Tunnel was rebuilt.

And, yes, the bus services are very much in operation. They either use the ferries or the Tunnel.

The latest bus operator is not a bus firm but no less that Deutsche Bahn. For the first time it will run buses between Dusseldorf and London over the Festive season and undercut its rail fares at the same time.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

The German domestic market has only been now been de-regulated to allow “Open Access” coach companies – from a law dating back to the late 40’s / Early 50’s. So national coach journeys in Germany have grown from about 3m to 8m in the last year as companies get in leading to very low fares and casualties already in the German market. This has had an impact on the numbers using German trains (for which the law was originally intended way back when). France is now deregulating there coach market – so the viability of TGV services beyond the HS networks and natural add-ons is now in question. Each new HS line build in France has a lower ROI due to the growing number of HS lines along with competition from LCC’s and now potentially coach travel. Good news for the French that the original line Paris to Lyon has paid back the whole infrastructure cost and more to the French treasury and TGV Atlantique (original sections) are nearly there.

Slightly off OP – but AMcW mentions the DB coach service. I think ferries will stay (or the Fast Ferries). It just may be a diminished service and more routes might go freight only.

[Stamford777]

I wonder what will happen in Greece where numerous ferries connect Piraeus with the islands. In fact they are in many cases an economic lifeline.Having taken a ferry to Ikaria in September I cannot believe these ships will conform and also feel that the local populace will be very sensitive to any fare increases. It won’t help tourism either.

[AMcWhirter]

canucklad – Good point. That is why I believe neither the French or the UK governments would want to rely entirely on the Tunnel.

As I mentioned above, after the 1996 fire the Tunnel was operating for no less than six months at reduced capacity and I remember that Eurostar had to revise all its schedules because its journey time increased.

Also I forgot there’s another rail firm, turned bus operator.

Besides DB (which is now a growing bus firm within Germany), France’s SNCF (the majority owner of Eurostar) also competes with a London-Paris iDBus service.

[MrMichael]

I don’t buy in to the tunnel having a major impact on the economics of ferries, on the Dover straight or anywhere else. Two things have upset their business model, and they both came around the same time, the loss of duty free and the LoCo airlines.

[LuganoPirate]

I may be wrong here, as my info goes back a few years, but I don’t think things have changed much, is that:
1. the main money maker for the ferries is freight. You’ll often see trailers only on the ferries where they’ve been put on with a tractor unit and taken off the other end to be picked up by a local driver and taken onwards. This way neither the driver or the tractor cross the channel. That’s almost impossible with the Tunnel.

2. The vast majority of car traffic is leisure and again the vast majority is British. From holiday traffic, mini breaks to just popping over for a good lunch, filling up with good vino (and cheaper petrol) and a bit of shopping in the supermarkets.

None of this is affected by the loss of duty free or the loco’s so I think the ferries will be around for some time to come.

[SimonS1]

Indeed LP. Good point. Plenty of people go over at this time of year to fill up on booze etc. The cost of getting there comes from the savings made so we take the cheapest option.

For the ferries they often do late bookings cheaply – it is marginal income when they would be running anyway.

[flyingdutchman]

Yes, I do care. Travel to the continent and back regularly, live in Poole Dorset, 2 hours 45 to Dover (or Folkstone) and 3 hours from the French coast to Maastricht in the Netherlands.
Love to have coffee, lunch or dinner on board the ferries, nice break from driving the car. On Eurotunnel you still sit in the car or stand next to it on a very uninteresting railway carriage. Normally Eurotunnel also charges 4 times the ferry fare. So I hope they stay (and Eurotunnel will never be able to take the appr. 6000 trucks that cross the Channel DAILY.

[lloydah]

I use Stena from Harwich to the Hook quite regularly who claim on their funnels to be quite eco friendly ?? However, they are usually full of freight and the passengers (all 2 dozen of them) have the ship to themselves. Many times it’s been hard to count more than a handful of people but I bet the freight makes up for the difference.

[AMcWhirter]

The news today is that Eurotunnel must cease operating ferries between Dover and Calais. It has lost its appeal regarding MyFerryLink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-30745328

[transtraxman]

Should not this thread be resurrected in order to keep it in the public´s mind?

This I see as especially important for discussion after the closedown of the Chunnel on Saturday 17th.

The big question is that the cross-channel ferry services are needed as an extremely important link if anything blocks usage of the Chunnel. Then why is it the British Government has accepted penalty charges on cross channel ships which are not applied in the Mediterranean?

That makes me wonder if the Channel Islands and Scilly Islands are treated the same way. What is the case with the Irish Sea services to Ireland and the Isle of Man? And the Scottish island services? They are even more important since there is no rail competition.

At the very least the penalties should be the equivalent to others charged (or not) on the airlines or railways. No descrimination.

[LuganoPirate]

Transtraxman: +1

[batterytraveller]

IIRC the IoM steam packet and Caledonian McBrayne (Scottish islands) are still government owned or at least heavily subsidised.

[BigDog.]

transtraxman – 18/01/2015 20:22 GMT
+1

It would be interested to know if Med carriers have been given a longer window to comply, a free pass until the ferry is upgraded, or have been excluded altogether.

Could Alex investigate please?

I would assume the Greeks will have one of the largest ferry fleets – though are compromised with the funding side. However, having legislation is one thing ensuring compliance is quite another within the EU.

[Author]

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